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Author Topic: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??  (Read 1590 times)

Offline Glamisrider

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L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« on: January 25, 2016, 02:21:14 pm »
Trying to make my LED headlight & lighted Whip work good on the stock lighting system WITHOUT running a battery and heavily modifying the system.  I could use someone with real electrical system knowledge to verify what I think I know or don't know and answer some general questions on the LT500 electrical system.

General Questions:
1) How many watts does the stock lighting coils produce at 3K, 5K, 6K?
2) How many volts does the stock lighting coils put out at idle?
3) How many watts does the stock tail light with standard incandescent bulb pull?


LED Light & Load Specific Questions:
Headlight:
Currently I am running a Chris G, 6" double row LED light bar in the front.  It's 12 3W LEDs and it's rated for 9V-36V DC, Amps is 2.2@12V & 1.2A@24V.  I've ran this light direct from the stator 12V A/C on the "high" yellow wire for 2 years and it works BUT it does strobe depending on the RPMS, the higher the RPMs the faster it strobes, until you really can't notice it strobing.  I was thinking about putting a diode bridge rectifier to turn the the A/C signal in to DC.
Questions:
1) Will this stop the strobing?
2) Will a full signal bridge rectifier increase the volts to the light?  If so by what percentage?


Lighted Whip:

I have made 2 300 LED lighted whips that are rated at 25 Watts, 12V DC, both LED light strings stopped working after approximately 2 to 6 hours of use and they are wired in to the tail light leads (Not sure if they stopped due to physical damage or electrical system incompatibility issues).
Questions:
1) If I put a full signal bridge rectifier before the lighted whip, will it increase the DC amps above the 12v A/C signal coming from the stock voltage regulator?


Entire System:
1) If I'm running this headlight at 36Watts, the Lighted Whip at 25 watts, and a stock tail light I'll be at approximately 71 Watts.  Since I am reaching what I believe is the watt limits of the system (55-60W, I could be wrong) will this increase the amps as there is not enough watts to push the electrical signal, to a point I'll over heat or burn up the system/ coils?



Hopefully I was clear on all of my questions, if not let me know where I was not and I'll try to clarify best I can.

Thanks



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Offline Rogue1970

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 03:11:33 pm »
I'll try to answer some that I know of....


General Questions:
1) How many watts does the stock lighting coils produce at 3K, 5K, 6K?
2) How many volts does the stock lighting coils put out at idle?
3) How many watts does the stock tail light with standard incandescent bulb pull?
  • Stock lighting coils output 80watts max.  I only seem to remember this is above 4k RPM or so.
  • I've only measured the stock lighting circuit (regulated) and it varied between 13volts to 17volts around idle.
  • Stock tail light is an 1156 bulb base that is rated for 5 watts.


LED Light & Load Specific Questions:
Headlight:
Questions:
1) Will this stop the strobing?
2) Will a full signal bridge rectifier increase the volts to the light?  If so by what percentage?
  • Good question.  It might.  I believe that the strobe effect is due to the Alternating Current IMO.
  • Out of my scope of knowledge.


Lighted Whip:

Questions:
1) If I put a full signal bridge rectifier before the lighted whip, will it increase the DC amps above the 12v A/C signal coming from the stock voltage regulator?
  • Sorry don't know this either. I just removed the stock regulator and added a regulator/rectifier for my battery and lights.

Entire System:
1) If I'm running this headlight at 36Watts, the Lighted Whip at 25 watts, and a stock tail light I'll be at approximately 71 Watts.  Since I am reaching what I believe is the watt limits of the system (55-60W, I could be wrong) will this increase the amps as there is not enough watts to push the electrical signal, to a point I'll over heat or burn up the system/ coils?
IMO, trying to run this much of a load without a battery will tax the stator/lighting coils.  My 12volt battery provides an electrical buffer to the stator.

My friend has picked up the new Baja Designs 9k lumens Squadron XL Pro light.  This draws 80 watts.  He has a Ballistic battery and initial testing shows it works.  Long term... I don't know. 

I've melted a set of the 130 watt lighting coils mounted to a stock stator.  Looking back now, it could of been caused by my poor ground on my initial build in 2010.  I was running a 4k HID light at the time.


Good luck with your endeavor  #1>

Offline ZillaFreak

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2016, 05:21:03 pm »
Quote
General Questions:
1) How many watts does the stock lighting coils produce at 3K, 5K, 6K?
2) How many volts does the stock lighting coils put out at idle?
3) How many watts does the stock tail light with standard incandescent bulb pull?


LED Light & Load Specific Questions:
Headlight:
Currently I am running a Chris G, 6" double row LED light bar in the front.  It's 12 3W LEDs and it's rated for 9V-36V DC, Amps is 2.2@12V & 1.2A@24V.  I've ran this light direct from the stator 12V A/C on the "high" yellow wire for 2 years and it works BUT it does strobe depending on the RPMS, the higher the RPMs the faster it strobes, until you really can't notice it strobing.  I was thinking about putting a diode bridge rectifier to turn the the A/C signal in to DC.
Questions:
1) Will this stop the strobing?
2) Will a full signal bridge rectifier increase the volts to the light?  If so by what percentage?


Lighted Whip:
I have made 2 300 LED lighted whips that are rated at 25 Watts, 12V DC, both LED light strings stopped working after approximately 2 to 6 hours of use and they are wired in to the tail light leads (Not sure if they stopped due to physical damage or electrical system incompatibility issues).
Questions:
1) If I put a full signal bridge rectifier before the lighted whip, will it increase the DC amps above the 12v A/C signal coming from the stock voltage regulator?


Entire System:
1) If I'm running this headlight at 36Watts, the Lighted Whip at 25 watts, and a stock tail light I'll be at approximately 71 Watts.  Since I am reaching what I believe is the watt limits of the system (55-60W, I could be wrong) will this increase the amps as there is not enough watts to push the electrical signal, to a point I'll over heat or burn up the system/ coils?



Hopefully I was clear on all of my questions, if not let me know where I was not and I'll try to clarify best I can.

Thanks

1) Not 100% but 80 watts sounds right. I have found aftermarket stators at 130watt. You can always get your stock one rewound for more watts.
2) After the regulator, it should be around 13-15VAC, but they all vary.
3) Rogue got that.

1) Strobing is due to the AC turning off and on (switching the way electric goes. A simple diode will not fix this as it. A full bridge rectifier will help. The flickering will actually destroy the LED fast. Get this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Universal-Rectifier-Converts-12V-AC-to-12V-DC-Voltage-/171266352569?hash=item27e04525b9:g:6WMAAOSwl9BWKkIU&vxp=mtr
Also a little 12VDC rc battery will help with any strobing.
2) No, a full bridge will normally convert 12VAC to 12VDC. Some can increase voltage but they are combined with something else.

1) Amps = Wattage / Volts. Also, normally you lose wattage going from AC to DC. IIRC it is around 20% lose. So 80 watts will become around 65 watts.

Offline Gillio

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 06:27:18 pm »
A capacitor wired in will keep it from strobing. Look for a capacitor out of a skidoo SDI non electric start. They are good sized and probably pretty cheap used
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Offline Glamisrider

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 07:09:44 pm »
1) Amps = Wattage / Volts. Also, normally you lose wattage going from AC to DC. IIRC it is around 20% lose. So 80 watts will become around 65 watts.

If I did this I would put two full wave bridge rectifiers one on the front light yellow wire and one for the tail light wire which includes the lighted whip.  The 20% reduction would occur after each bridge rectifier so the 36W head light would then require43.2 watts and the 5w tail light & the 25watt whip would pull 36 watts for a total of 79.2 watts required.

 
A simple diode will not fix this as it. A full bridge rectifier will help.

They make different types of bridge rectifiers, a diode based and a silicone chip based one, both are bridge rectifiers with full wave rectified.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge




Doing the math on this system at 12V would yield 6.6 Amps (79.2/12), stock system is about 60W/12V = 5 Amps  (55W headlight + 5W tail light).

Does anybody know if 6.6 Amps would melt the stock system?

I've also heard you can get a 95% efficiency full wave bridge rectifier, any truth to this? 

If so that would reduce my wattage intake to 69.30W & 5.78 amps @12V and with a LED tail light bulb I could get it down to 65W & 5.43 Amps @12v  Which I think would work on the stock system without a battery?


Also what gauge wire is the wiring system built out of?  14ga?
I can check amp rating by gauge size.







Offline Q2W

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 08:58:33 pm »
i met a guy at the dunes that had a honda 250r switched to DC.   He told me he called up Ricky Stator and they built him a custom rectifier complete with instructions to install to the stock system.  May be worth calling them up and picking their brain.

Offline zrennek

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 09:10:07 pm »
You could try a standard tympanium 4 wire(Easy to get) reg/rec along with a large capacitor as a buffer instead of a battery.

 These systems just are not meant to power a lot of light. I had my 130w RS coils on an oem stator fail after about 4 years of use. I'm now running a OEM stator with a small wheelchair led acid battery (about 3lbs and around $30,  is rated at 11 AH) this battery is way smaller than your typical motorcycle battery. The only good thing is it works (as you guys know it's not that easy).

Rogue,  I hope your friend set up works, but with a ballistic battery it will be hard to tell when it's just running off the battery or actually using the rectified output (you can test with a digital VM). Not sure how the Li batt will like the varying trickle charge from the bike. Fact is a light at the wattage is pulling way more amp than the system can generate so there is quite the loss going on there.

 Just have to remember to keep everything connected while riding in the daytime so it recharges.

Good Luck to everyone.

Offline Rogue1970

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 02:13:36 am »
Yep, I agree zrennek.  I'll settle for my 'simple' 12v DC setup with a 7ah motorcycle battery powering a 40watt LED light.  Been working fine since 2010.

Keep us in the loop Glamisrider on what you find out.

Offline Glamisrider

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 10:33:44 pm »
If I was too install a single bridge rectifier that rectified just the bright headlight (yellow wire) and the tail light, where would be the place to write it in?


Thanks

Offline Rogue1970

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 11:01:49 pm »
Looking at the wiring diagram (first image) from my old post:
http://www.suzukiquadracerhq.com/tech-talk-electrical/quadzilla-ledhid-lighting-with-12-vdc/

So, the yellow w/red tracer stator wire and the grey wire coming off of the regulator provide power to your lighting components. You should have access to the connector that is under the fuel tank containing both wires.  These wires go to the handlebar light switch.

I'm not sure if this would work right since your changing half of the AC connection.  The lighting system uses two AC wires to complete its circuit.  You would now have a DC ?positive? (grey wire) feeding the lighting components.  The other wire is still running AC, so would that make all your lights flicker on and off as the AC cycles?  I'm not sure.

Let us know what you find out buddy.

Offline El Diablo

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Re: L500 LED AC to DC Light System NO Battery??
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2016, 12:32:23 am »
On PCS's old trike, he didn't do any modifications to the electrical system to run his 6" LEDs. The only flicker or strobing we could see was when the switch was on & you were trying to kick start the engine. At anything above idle, it was a bright steady light.
Brian
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