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Author Topic: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC  (Read 4708 times)

Offline WestTexasKing

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Re: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 02:17:51 am »
Have him check the voltage at idle and see what it's running at, then give the system a load (hook up a 55W headlight or something that would approximate the LED you want to run), see how low the voltage drops and record it.
You can stack 5W or 10W turn signal, parking lights, or dome lights together until you get the right watt load (ie three 10W brake lights and a single 5W dome light to approximate a 35W LED lightbar), just wire, solder, or alligator clip them all together.
If it drops considerably, you might not want to run an LED without a battery.
In airplane school it was taught that a generator operating at high load conditions and low RPM (idle) reduces the life of the generator because higher amperage was needed due to insufficient voltage pushing the current.
High amps are responsible for overheating wires and cracking insulation, so it's fair to say the assumption is accurate.
The thing is, a stator rated at 84W and 12V exactly can put out more than 7 amps (do the math), but it won't exceed 84W, so the voltage drops excessively.
If you're pushing more than the recommended amp rating (based on max watt output and voltage), the coils can overheat, short out, or burn up as a result.
So, there's the stator's health to be concerned with while not running a battery...but there's more to consider as well.

Look at the specs on the LED you want to run and see if there's a minimum recommended voltage (probably 9V, correct?).
Check that against the recorded voltage and see if you can maintain the minimum voltage.
If you can't, the LED's are probably going to blink on every now and then when you blip the throttle but for the most part you're going to be blind.
If you're lucky enough to just barely meet that minimum voltage, you'll probably just have a 2-stroke powered strobe light party.
A capacitor might fix the problem if you were consistently getting above minimum voltage to power the lights, however, I seriously doubt the stator will provide enough power.
When you're trail riding, wouldn't it suck if you were hauling balls around a turn, then saw a giant zombie bear-shark fangoriously devouring a viking dude with chainsaw arms and a glass eye directly in front of you, but as soon as you slammed on the brakes to avoid a crash the headlights just.....turned off?

Here's a pretty cheap (and lightweight) option if you don't care to run the lights while the quad is idling or shut off...
Buy two of these packs and wire in series (that means hook one positive wire to positive on stator, then negative on same pack to positive on next pack, then negative on that pack to ground on stator).
You're doubling the voltage on the packs, they're 6.6V and you need twice that much, it's just the same as those fancy lipo packs that they're selling for newer 4-strokes without the fancy hard case.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14075__ZIPPY_Flightmax_700mAh_6_6V_5C_LiFePo4_Reciever_Pack.html
It's a tiny little pack, good for 700mah (will run a 55W light for 8min or a 35W for 14min with two packs in series), the total weight for both packs with wiring and everything would come out to 1/4lb, and your cost would be $5.26 before shipping.
They can be found pretty much everywhere in the RC world, just search google for "RC lifepo4 transmitter pack"
Here's another one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__23822__Turnigy_nano_tech_1450mAh_2S1P_20_40C_LiFePo4_Receiver_Pack_.html
It's a 1450mah, so it'll run basically twice as long as the 700mah above, total weight for two packs and wiring is .375lbs, $15.98.
They're small enough that you can zip tie them to the frame, duct tape them to the bottom of the seat, or velcro them to the underside of a fender.

So, to answer your question, I wouldn't run an LED without a battery.
When you consider the battery options available like these in particular there's no excuse, it would seem silly to NOT run some type of battery, especially if you run the risk of damaging the stator or yourself when the lights stop working.

Offline Glamisrider

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Re: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2013, 12:31:10 pm »
West, I like the idea of the small RC batteries But they will run down even if I ONLY turn the lights on when the bike is running correct because there is nothing charging them.

My question is; is there draw on the battery when the stator is producing enough to power the lights and when the stator is producing below the required power the draw on the batteries will only be the difference between what the stator is producing and the shortage of what the lights need?

IE: I'm running this light:
http://okledlightbars.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3462190

Will the light function at idle or will I need a battery to make up for the shortage and if the battery makes up for the shortage will it only make up for what is needed or will it pull full current from the battery when the bike is at idle?

Also how does the voltage affect the light on an AC system?

Thanks for answering my stupid questions Tex.

Offline WestTexasKing

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Re: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2013, 05:27:30 pm »
If you've got a charging system with a battery, then the draw on the battery will only be the difference between the load and generated electricity.
For example...let's use a 100W draw from the lights.
If your stator is producing 130W, then 30W is allocated to charging the battery while the other 100W goes to the lights.
If your stator is only producing 80W, then 20W will come from the battery to total 100W going to the lights.
Granted, that's not taking into account inefficiencies or anything, but it gives you a general idea about what's going on.

If you have a 5Ah battery used with a 130W stator and 100W lights, it will take 2 hours to fully charge your battery.
If you turn the lights off and use 100% of the stator's 130W to charge the battery, it'll get a full charge in 30-45min.

As for the battery eventually going down without a charging system, yeah...obviously LOL
However, think of it as a fuel tank for your lights.
If you're riding all day at the dunes, you need a few gas cans back at camp to refuel, right?
Just make a stop and fill up your tank.
Same way with the batteries...have a few back at camp that are charged and/or rotated out on the charger.
During your refueling, swap out the battery for a fresh one and hook the used one up to a charge.
If your fuel tank is only going to let you ride for 2hrs, then you only need a battery that will provide a 2hr run time.
A charging system is worthless if you don't have the fuel to run the stator.
3 cell lipo batteries can be fully charged in 10-30min depending on brand and type, so by the time you fuel up your quad, grab something to drink, and cool off for a few minutes, your lipo should be fully charged again.
Take a spare if you want to run the lights longer than you'll be riding, or as a precautionary measure.
And FYI, the lipo batteries are pretty much any size you want...5,000mah battery=5Ah battery, a little smaller than a motorcycle battery, and you can plug them up in series just like diesel truck batteries to get more capacity.
All depends on how long you want to run the lights, or how much light you want as to the size of the battery that'll work best.

Offline Glamisrider

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Re: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2013, 09:46:57 am »
Ok I'm starting to understand it now.

Next quesiton could the batteries be wired in to the system since they are DC and the bikes system is AC?

2nd question: If the batteries can be wired in to the system despite the currant differences in order to make a charging system for the batteries that runs off the stator (so I don't have to separately charge) I'd still need to wire in a rectifier in order to charge the batteries since they are DC, correct? 

Basically use kennerz DC charging system but just use the LED lights and the smaller RC batteries instead, right?


Offline WestTexasKing

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Re: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 11:36:29 am »
As long as your rectified (DC) charging system doesn't exceed 12.8V, you can use any 3 cell lipo battery.
Any battery will fry if hooked up to an AC system, so be sure that you're hooking it up to the rectified portion of the system.
You can simply substitute the HID and lead battery with the LED and lipo battery on Kennerz' or Rogue's wiring schematics.
If your charging system exceeds 12.8V, you'll damage the battery, so be sure that your voltage regulator is working (it should keep it right around 12V).
If it doesn't, then you'll have to go with a lead battery or a lifepo (lithium iron) battery...they'll handle a standard 14.8V charging system.
The lifepo batteries are heavier and a bit more expensive than lipo batteries, but they're extremely durable in comparison and have a higher working voltage due to cell voltage differences.
They're the same "lipo" batteries that are on the market now for quads and streetbikes, so that makes sourcing a big enough battery pretty easy.

Offline Glamisrider

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Re: Quadzilla LED/HID lighting with 12 VDC
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2016, 10:58:11 am »
Just burned through all this again and wanted to ask a question.

I am wondering if a battery is even needed to run the LED light bar when the bike is running. I could see using it to make sure the lights dont cut on and off at idle. LED dont need the startup amps like an HID light.

I will be doing this and was just wondering if anyone has checked it.

Book quotes these ratings for stock lighting coils:
12v A/C at 3,000 rpm
18v A/C at 8,000 rpm

 

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