Author Topic: TRANNY FLUID QUESTIONS (Read 8099 times)

Sublunacy · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2015, 11:21:48 am »

the shift shaft is a little soft and likes to bend and it has no bushing or bearing either as i understand.

--- also the crank balancer puts alot of stress on the gears during instant rpm changes caused by traction from the rear wheels. i.e spinning out then suddenly full traction and bogging down the rpm.

does the honda have one? i know the 86 rm250 did not.

All American · « **Reply #26 on:** November 20, 2015, 02:33:17 pm »

Quote from: Sublunacy on November 20, 2015, 11:21:48 am

the shift shaft is a little soft and likes to bend and it has no bushing or bearing either as i understand.

--- also the crank balancer puts alot of stress on the gears during instant rpm changes caused by traction from the rear wheels. i.e spinning out then suddenly full traction and bogging down the rpm.

does the honda have one? i know the 86 rm250 did not.

My shifter shaft is slightly bent. Funny you should mention that.

If titanium isn't ideal, what metal would you choose?

Sublunacy · « **Reply #27 on:** November 21, 2015, 10:08:58 am »

im going to heat treat my shift shaft in my oven- you guys can make one from rare earth metal if you want.

a recipe i found for small steel parts for diy heat treating is 4 hours at 450f with the part wrapped in fiberglass to protect it from the heater elements. perhaps longer due to the thickness.

-------
will that do for the shift shaft?

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2015, 12:48:21 pm »

Quote from: Sublunacy on November 21, 2015, 10:08:58 am

im going to heat treat my shift shaft in my oven- you guys can make one from rare earth metal if you want.

a recipe i found for small steel parts for diy heat treating is 4 hours at 450f with the part wrapped in fiberglass to protect it from the heater elements. perhaps longer due to the thickness.

-------
will that do for the shift shaft?

450 F for 4 hours is going to change the temper only if it is high carbon steel. If it is high carbon steel and was already heat treated so that it was hard and very resistant to bending, your temperting process for 4 hours at 450 is only going to make it softer and bend more easily.

El Diablo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:30:34 pm »

Totally unrelated to gears, but I've been doing a lot more blacksmithing for ornamental iron projects and a few knife blades. To harden the knife blades, I throw them into the forge until they are a uniform dull orange then quench them in used motor oil. After doing this 3 or 4 times, I then sharpen the blade. They seem to hold the edge pretty well as opposed to a raw piece of flat strap (I used to cut out knife blades on my band saw when I was 9 years old. They would bend over & go dull in a day from normal use).
Just wondering if this process could be done to gears?

El Diablo · « **Reply #30 on:** November 21, 2015, 09:33:16 pm »

And as far as clutch baskets go, I have sent an old one to Barnett to see if they could make a few dozen billet pieces. They kept my basket & told me no.

All American · « **Reply #31 on:** November 22, 2015, 05:51:48 pm »

That's messed up.

Sublunacy · « **Reply #32 on:** November 24, 2015, 08:08:01 pm »

what fluid does the service manual say to use? my friend has mine or i would look.

Redwhiteblue · « **Reply #33 on:** November 28, 2015, 11:38:53 am »

I have both manuals, I should go look for you guys.

All American · « **Reply #34 on:** December 28, 2015, 02:51:07 am »

The green service manual calls for the tyranny fluid to be replaced after a 100 miles, or 200 km, or once a month. However we have already established its best to change after a single day of hard riding if possible. As far as what to use,... the manual doesnt state a certain oil.

The Clymeranual doesn't state it either. It says, use only a high quality detergent motor oil with an API classification of SE or SF.

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #35 on:** December 28, 2015, 08:23:03 am »

Quote from: All American on December 28, 2015, 02:51:07 am

The Clymeranual doesn't state it either. It says, use only a high quality detergent motor oil with an API classification of SE or SF.

About 90 % of the motor oils (cheap or expensive) you will find at any auto parts store, grocery story or kool aid stand will meet these API classification. You do not need to spend a lot of money on tranny oil. The key is change it frequently.

87 zilla · « **Reply #36 on:** December 28, 2015, 05:39:30 pm »

My 87 yellow manual said 20w-40w suzuki oil but I've been running 20w-50w amsoil motorcycle oil ever sense it was available with no problems. I change it every 10-15 hours with it hot.

All American · « **Reply #37 on:** February 28, 2016, 10:30:45 pm »

Quote from: MotorGeek on December 28, 2015, 08:23:03 am

Quote from: All American on December 28, 2015, 02:51:07 am

The Clymeranual doesn't state it either. It says, use only a high quality detergent motor oil with an API classification of SE or SF.

About 90 % of the motor oils (cheap or expensive) you will find at any auto parts store, grocery story or kool aid stand will meet these API classification. You do not need to spend a lot of money on tranny oil. The key is change it frequently.

MotorGeek, there is no doubt in my mind or questioning what you say, cause I KNOW that you are like the Wikipedia of our qr's and other quads too. Your kind of like my grandpa, when he talks, everybody shuts up and listens cause we have respect. We now know that it is important to change it very often and that most oils meet the API standards,.... Knowing this, what do you yourself use?

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #38 on:** February 29, 2016, 09:14:43 am »

Quote from: All American on February 28, 2016, 10:30:45 pm

Quote from: MotorGeek on December 28, 2015, 08:23:03 am
Quote from: All American on December 28, 2015, 02:51:07 am

The Clymeranual doesn't state it either. It says, use only a high quality detergent motor oil with an API classification of SE or SF.

About 90 % of the motor oils (cheap or expensive) you will find at any auto parts store, grocery story or kool aid stand will meet these API classification. You do not need to spend a lot of money on tranny oil. The key is change it frequently.

MotorGeek, there is no doubt in my mind or questioning what you say, cause I KNOW that you are like the Wikipedia of our qr's and other quads too. Your kind of like my grandpa, when he talks, everybody shuts up and listens cause we have respect. We now know that it is important to change it very often and that most oils meet the API standards,.... Knowing this, what do you yourself use?

What ever oil is on sale that week.

All American · « **Reply #39 on:** February 29, 2016, 04:00:50 pm »

if that's good enough for you, its good enough for me.

Motoman991 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2016, 10:18:01 am »

I run ATF because it's cheap.

All American · « **Reply #41 on:** March 25, 2016, 10:37:36 pm »

Where does a majority of the particals come from? Maybe the clutch basket? What's a high wear and tear part causing it?

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #42 on:** March 26, 2016, 02:32:48 pm »

Quote from: All American on March 25, 2016, 10:37:36 pm

Where does a majority of the particals come from? Maybe the clutch basket? What's a high wear and tear part causing it?

Every time you shift gears it knocks off a small fragment off the corners of the dog and socket on the transmission gears. The ratchet on the kick starter looses some metal off of the edges of the oneway teeth every time the kick starter is used.

Every time you use the clutch there is clutch dust added to the oil. The clutch dust from kevlar or carbon fiber clutch plates is more abrasive than dust from OEM fiber clutch plates. There is some metal that wares off the tabs on the clutch plates and basket when the tabs slide up and down in the clutch basket slots. There is also some ware on the tabs and basket every time the load changes directions hammering the tabs and slots in the basket.

There has to be some metal that constantly being lost off the teeth of all of the gears but I think this loss is very very small.

All American · « **Reply #43 on:** March 26, 2016, 03:45:08 pm »

I just had to ask didn't I? LOL. I don't really know half of what you said. I really should take a mechanics course or two.

All American · « **Reply #44 on:** March 26, 2016, 07:15:34 pm »

Here in Missouri, the winters can get fairly cold. I store my qr in an unheated garage. Should I take special precautions as far as running the motor before it has warmed up? Or is it ok to start it up and drive it with the tyranny cold. Is it hard on things to rip on a tyranny still cold?

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #45 on:** March 29, 2016, 10:49:16 am »

I have always let my bikes idle and warm up a bit before taking them out and riding. Even after a light warm up I ride them slower and easily before just ripping on the throttles. I would recommend this to anyone as well. I wouldn't say that its hard on parts because I do not 100% know that to be true.

However I also don't go out in the morning start my car/truck and slam the gas peddle to the floor before its warmed up.

Like Jerry said everything wears in these motors just by normal function. That is just how things are. That is why maintenance is very important. The fluids and oil only stay clean and clear until your first ride. hell mine usually gets dirty after the first startup after a fluid change.

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #46 on:** March 29, 2016, 03:50:43 pm »

Quote from: All American on March 26, 2016, 07:15:34 pm

Here in Missouri, the winters can get fairly cold. I store my qr in an unheated garage. Should I take special precautions as far as running the motor before it has warmed up? Or is it ok to start it up and drive it with the tyranny cold. Is it hard on things to rip on a tyranny still cold?

I do not believe you will hurt the transmission running the engine hard when it is cold but you could seize the piston if the cylinder is not warm so the bore diameter has expanded enough to make room for a hot expanded piston. The piston temperature almost instantly follows the load and power output of the engine, where the bore diameter closely follows the water temp.

Sometimes the clutch will slip when the oil is cold and thick.

Throttle Therapy · « **Reply #47 on:** April 12, 2016, 09:34:10 pm »

If you were going to use automatic transmission fluid in a wet clutch. The reason for the type f is its non foaming where any mercon or dextron is a foaming fluid. Also the type f is a grippy fluid. For years gm used more aggressive clutch material than ford . But ford type f is a more aggressive fluid.. i would think something like belray gear saver wet clutch oil is easier on the transmission gears than type f . Another thing to note is a 230 is a 4 strock and the same oil that lubricate's the bottom end of the motor is also lubricating the transmission gears and the clutch pack. They are not separate. In a two stroke its only lubricating the clutch pack and the transmission gears. The motor is getting lubed by the oil mixed in the fuel.

All American · « **Reply #48 on:** May 21, 2016, 10:41:33 pm »

So I got a question about my 2013 Honda ( I know) TRX450ER. Do I need to change the tranny fluid as often as I do my 85' 250R? The 4 wheeler has never been on dirt or mud, only country highway miles.

92lt250wannabe · « **Reply #49 on:** May 22, 2016, 08:39:04 am »

I personally change my oil every one or two rides depending on how hard I'm riding. If it's a long day of hard riding I change it after that. If I am just easy trail riding I will go a couple rides between changes. I change my ice quad oil after every race day. I run Mobil 1 4R oil. Works well for me.

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Author Topic: TRANNY FLUID QUESTIONS (Read 8099 times)

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