230S kick starter on a 230E? Looks like a LOT of work to me. Hey that rhymes...Probably be easier just to put a 230S engine in there in the first place.
It knocks pretty much from the moment you start it from what I recall.
Also, I'm pretty sure the clutch and trans are stationary when the 230E idles, so I don't think it's in there.
Could be the roller bearing on that clutch shaft.
Hmm. Could be. I check NOW.
*elevator version of Grab Bag plays*
Nope. Put it on the crank after the oil pump drive gear like it should be, and it works smooth. One way clutch works well too. DAMN. IT. WTF is wrong with this thing?!?!
Here's what I see happening as it's idling.
Cam chain turning.
Cam chain tensioner tensioning.
Cam shaft turning.
Cam sprocket turning.
Rockers rocking.
Valves moving.
Springs springing.
Spring retainers retaining.
Valve cotters holding.
Valve stem seals sealing.
Clutch wheel bearings turning.
Primary clutch shoe assembly turning.
Crankshaft turning.
Connecting rod reciprocating.
Crank pin bearing turning.
Washers centering.
Crank bearings turning.
Oil pump drive gear turning.
Piston poppin aint no stoppin now!
Rings sealing.
Piston pin reciprocating.
Clips holding.
Seal sealing.
Valve guides guiding.
Spark plug sparking.
Rotor turning.
Oil pump pumping.
Pump driven gear turning.
Starter cup turning.
Starter clutch clutching.
I found something. I don't think it has anything to do with the problem, but I found it. The washer, number 13, was on the oil pump drive gear side of number 3, needle bearing. Hmm.
Holy she-ite! Number 7 has a crack in the CAGE!!!
E-mailed a guy on eBay that has a new 7. In his ad, he doesn't have a picture of the "
****" side of the bearing.
I also did testing by putting the crank half into the case half, with the oil pump drive gear and pin, and 3-6 on. Without the 13 washer in there, it has a little bit of float, like it should. With the 13, that isn't supposed to be there, it doesn't float. Maybe, the 1 couldn't sit there at idle like it's supposed to, so it was turning, turning 11-23, and the transmission, unlike it's supposed to, so that COULD be my knock.
Man, this is why I stick to QuadRACERS. MUCH less complicated.
i rebuilt a 98 trx450es. it was beat, petty much replaced everything but that one way bearing, looks like number 7a. doesn't make noise when running but when you kill the engine it will sorta knock. the bearing is gone and the engine also doesn't have compresion braking will free wheel down a hill. but it runs and drives good, and the owner didn't want to drop another $80 for a bearing. maybe that bearing beaning
**** is the noise your hearing. the clutch hub number 1 will rock around.
just read your last post, #1 should spin free when all together, maybe that was contributing to the noise you heard
Hey SB! How's it goin?
I e-mailed that guy on eBay with the new bearing, so I'll see if it has a crack in it from new. Upon further inspection, it doesn't look like a crack, more like a pair of relief cuts made on purpose by Suzuki. Only time will tell.
Yeah, if 1 ain't sitting there at idle, I figure that might just be my knock! I'm gonna put the engine back together without the clutch pieces and see what it does. Knock=Imma part it. No knock=tip it on the left side, add clutch, and test again. Knock=trace. No knock=HAPPEH KYLE T!!!!!
Ha!
Well, I looked this thing over, and the "
****" roller clutch caged and misplaced washer was all I found.
Hopefully 1 of them is the culprit.
UPDATE!
The bearing is cut that way, so it wasn't broken. Let's hope it was the washer...I'll find out when my gasket kit comes in.
valve springs springing, valve retainers retaining lol love it
Do you get the piston reference?
I'm sure you've already checked the valve clearance, but have you checked it while the engine is at operating temps?
Aircraft engines require valve adjustments to be made when the engine is hot, because the cylinder expands and changes clearances.
Probably not a big deal with the 230, seeing as how it has an overhead cam and no pushrods...but maybe something to check anyway?
Speaking of aircraft engines, my R1340 makes a very distinct knocking sound when the prop is turned over by hand, it almost sounds like there's a rod not connected to a piston.
Pretty loud too, when I shut it off and it slowly winds down from all that extra momentum from the 130lbs worth of prop, you can hear it in the cockpit...clunk clunk clunk...clunk.....clunk......clunk............clunk.................clunk.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the engine, and I've had 6 different mechanics that said they all do that, regardless of tolerances.
Even had an old mechanic from WWII that worked on them when they came out of the factory say they always did that.
Only explanation they could give me was the rings slapping back and forth between the lands on the piston (there's 4 sets in there).
It still bugs the hell out of me though!
They say that with straight rings (as opposed to a tapered cross-section), that ring slap is bad enough to cause damage to the piston if you run the engine with less than 25" manifold pressure.
Anything higher than 25" MAP (it's supercharged) keeps positive pressure on the rings and seats them against the bottom of the ring lands to prevent any movement back and forth.
The reason I brought it up (mostly because I'm out of ideas)...maybe it's possible that you're getting some ring slap?
It could be well within service limits, and might not be anything wrong with it other than that it's making a knocking sound.
Like I said, it's a long shot because I can't think of anything else causing it.
I don't think ring slap is an issue. I just put a new Wiseco in there and the piston and cylinder don't show any signs of even getting to know each other yet. I'll check anyway.
OK.
Top and second rings are between 1.5 and 2 thou.
Oil ring is between 4 and 5 thou.
Got the chassis all cleaned up. Just waiting on the gasket kit and wrist pin clip to finish up the engine and put it in there!
If it runs smooth and quiet like I think it will:
If it knocks:
F
K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UPDATE!
Good news and bad news.
Good news: IT DOESN'T KNOCK!!!!!!!
Bad news: The muffler I planned on using served as a home for wayward mice! The sumbitch is clogged! Any idea how to solve this dilemma? I was thinking of tossing the muffler in a fire, and that that would burn the stuff out. I could also take the muffler off of my old 230E and put it on there, but I'd still need to buy a new muffler. Anyone know of a nice quiet aftermarket muffler I could put on mine?
Great job dude
Nothing better than fixing something right
Thanks Dez.
You damn right.
Man. The afro guy's afro doesn't show up too well against a black background...
Kyle, not a lot of options for the 230 as far as exhausts go!
Your options amount to stock, Cobra, DG xcellerator, or a universal fit silencer like the megamax from FMF, HMF, or supertrapp.
The DG gives it a lower exhaust note, which amounts to a quieter sound...doesn't really lower the db.
Cobra makes it louder, and the megamax is adjustable.
Oh BTW, glad you got it fixed up!
One thing I can't stand is putting everything back together after not finding anything wrong...and the problem is magically fixed.
...great, so that means it could magically break itself again for no reason whatsoever
I don't think DG makes the Xccelerator system anymore. Too bad. Looked pretty good, being an exhaust gasket to exhaust note setup.
I wonder if the MegaMax could be made quieter?
I'd really like the FMF Q muffler. They look quiet.
Thanks!
I'm pretty sure the washer out of place was the problem.
UPDATE AGAIN!
Used an acetylene torch and burned the stuff out. STINKY! Works though!
The dg exhaust is very loud. If you ride in a neighborhood, I would avoid it.
A SuperTrapp would be a really good option. Only have a plate or two at the most and maaannnn they stay quiet. Glad you got it all squared away Kyle buddy!!
They do look loud J.
SuperTrapp huh? Rarer then hen's teeth! I wonder if one of their universal ones would work, or a similar plate style from someone else?
Thanks CJ!