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The good: Thanks to Maxxh2o for sending me a wrist pin for measurement purposes. I have sent this pin off to PAECO industries to be replicated in titanium.
The not as good: $150 each unless I order 8 or more.
If any of you want one, send me a PM.
According to the guy on the phone, a Ti wrist pin made to the exact dimensions as a chromemoly pin will be half the weight & twice the strength. He stated that as long as they stay lubricated, then they should out last a steel pin 4 to 1 & that they have not had any reported failures due to fatigue. A lighter pin will allow your engine to rev quicker & make more power above 6,000 rpm.
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What is the price if you order 8 or more?
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Cool thing
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What is the price if you order 8 or more?
The guy estimates between $130-$140. Still expensive, but you're still getting a Ti wrist pin.
I may also try to see if I can include LT-250R wrist pins into the lot as well. I just need someone to send me one.
Maybe some of the builders here would want to get a few? -
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Nice work. Probably be the last wrist pin youd have to buy for a zilla.
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The good: Thanks to Maxxh2o for sending me a wrist pin for measurement purposes. I have sent this pin off to PAECO industries to be replicated in titanium.
The not as good: $150 each unless I order 8 or more.
If any of you want one, send me a PM.
According to the guy on the phone, a Ti wrist pin made to the exact dimensions as a chromemoly pin will be half the weight & twice the strength. He stated that as long as they stay lubricated, then they should out last a steel pin 4 to 1 & that they have not had any reported failures due to fatigue. A lighter pin will allow your engine to rev quicker & make more power above 6,000 rpm.
I do not think the salesman is aware that a needle bearing will be running against the wrist pin. I bet he thinks that you are using this in a four stroke.
I will not use them.
Titanium connecting rods and wrist pins are ok if you are using them in a 4 stroke that does not have needle bearings in big end or wrist pin end. Titanium is too soft to work as a bearing surface.
Titanium is strong and light but cannot be be heat treated to serve as a bearing surface where balls or needle bearings are used.
I learned this expensive lesson about 30 years ago. -
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Man I was thinking what a great way to lessen the reciprocating weight....
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Well I didn't see that one coming so now I feel like a dum bass. I too was thinking of the weight savings in the reciprocating assembly.
I will call on Monday morning to see if they have done any testing on a 2 stroke application with needle bearings. -
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Brian, even if they can work in a needle bearing situation, be wary of those dubious claims.
Titanium is stronger than steel by weight, but not by volume.
In other words, if a 1" steel bar can support x lbs, then a 1" Ti bar will not be able to support x lbs without failing.
However, if size isn't a consideration, you can use a 1.5" Ti bar (not exact, just an example) for the same strength with less weight.
So if the dimensions are the exact same, then the Ti wrist pin will be weaker than the chromoly pin.
That's also why you don't see very much Ti hardware, because it needs to be slightly larger than steel hardware.
With the additional volume, the Ti hardware becomes every bit as strong with a weight reduction.
Still have galling issues just like aluminum or SS hardware though, and it hurts your wallet a lot more if you gall up and ruin Ti bolts.
One way I can think of successfully utilizing Ti in a wrist pin is by using a hardened steel sleeve over the Ti.
Honestly, unless you need every little bit of an advantage, I doubt it would be worth it to the average rider.
Another possibility would be to nikasil plate the Ti wrist pin, but that would be an iffy endeavor...what if the underlying Ti deforms enough to crack the brittle nikasil plating, or excessively wears the needle bearing, or the piston itself?
If I had some R&D money, I'd go with the nikasil idea, simply because nikasil hardly wears at all, and if it does get worn you can replate it and use it again.
See what they'd charge for a set of cases or a cylinder
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Fantastic strength and light weight !
The following new items, made from titanium, were introduced by PAECO in 1999. Titanium is a unique metal that is approximately twice as strong as steel, but only one half the weight. Since a tremendous amount of HP is consumed in an engine by simply moving parts up and down at high RPM, titanium can provide both more power and greater reliability. Parts can be made at twice the strength and half the weight, OR at the same strength and 1/4th the weight. If you are a serious racer, you should consider titanium for your engine.
The above is copied directly from the PAECO web page. -
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sounds like it would be a good idea but id listen to the geek on this one..
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Motorgeek is correct on this one. I called the company to advise them that it was using needle bearings & the salesman said that a pure titanium wrist pin would only last about a few days or so before it galls & fails. So as I was cancelling my order, he said that they titanium nitride coat the pins to achieve bearing hardness & strength. Do you guys think i'm beating a dead horse here?
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Cost vs performance gain. Ya your beating a dead horse. Great Idea but not cost effective for a part that's going to wear and need replacing each piston.
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Motorgeek is correct on this one. I called the company to advise them that it was using needle bearings & the salesman said that a pure titanium wrist pin would only last about a few days or so before it galls & fails. So as I was cancelling my order, he said that they titanium nitride coat the pins to achieve bearing hardness & strength. Do you guys think i'm beating a dead horse here?
Nitride coating is not new technology. I doubt if the bearing surface would last a couple tanks of fuel. I think that titanium products salesman is overselling the power gains for the weight savings the Ti wrist would bring.
Ti wrist pin and connecting rods are snake oil unless you are going to try spin the LT 500 15,000 RPM. We hang a pipe on the LT 500 that could be tuned for 15,000 RPM but the existing port design potential cannot be made to work very efficiently much past 8,000 RPM. -