Quadzilla has me stumped!

Quadzilla has me stumped!
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 26 Mar, 2016 21:41
I bought another Zilla and am trying to get her ready but am having trouble. When it's running it runs like a **** ape but is very hard to start especially warm (only ran it once) After several attempts warm or cold I only smell vp110 and 927. Pull the wet plug and put in a dry one and that usually gets it started. Engine is complete rebuild, crank boss inserts, leveled top of case halfs, welded cylinder ears, 87.5mm, new piston and rings, Duncan racing 59cc head, Pt pipe, new pyramid reed cage, welded flywheel, stock stator and coil that both bench test great, 38mm pwk A/S 52pilot 180 main, Float at 16mm (also tried a 38.5mm pj off a cr500 with no better results), sea level about 85 and humid side. To me starting seems flooded but no fuel from carb over flow.When ruining it dose not idle on its own although I have not messed with idle too much. Leak down holds great a very slight leak from exhaust valve but very very slow.l less that 1lb in two mins ( I will fix this before major ride) alsoholds radiator pressure test. Flywheel key was a thought but it was fine when it was installed with lock tight. Spark is very strong. Please give me your thoughts! I have done several other quads but this on has me stumped. Thanks

#1 Reply
Posted by Rainman56 on 27 Mar, 2016 09:50
Are you sure its a 38mm and not a 39mm?I only ask because if its a 39mm the pilot jet seems a tad lean and the 500,s are a pita to start when lean.Most run 58-62 I believe.Not sure on the 38,s.Also possible needle and seat although I would think the gas would be running out and you said it isn,t.Could try getting it running and as soon as you shut it off turn the petcock to off and see if it will start a couple times.

Keihins don,t use a needle jet so if the carb is worn badly it could pull fuel past the metering rod and cause a no idle condition.I'm someone else will chime in with some thoughts...

#2 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 27 Mar, 2016 11:07
Thanks for the thoughts. The carb is def a 38mm a/s. It was new but been on my shelf for 4 years. I purchased it for Cr250. I thought I would use it just to see while I decide on a carb. I thought maybe a little better response out of it and from what I have read the a/s likes a little leaner jetting.
Could be too lean but why would I smell so much fuel out of the pipe and have a wet plug? And why not restart after warm easly? Maybe opposite but it seems like it is flooding.
I forgot to mention in the last post that I have no lid on the box with a K&n with outerwear.

#3 Reply
Posted by Rainman56 on 27 Mar, 2016 11:58
When you let off the throttle to idle does is idle briefly or just stall immediately?What is the slide height with the throttle closed?

#4 Reply
Posted by Glamisrider on 27 Mar, 2016 13:43
As long as you have, spark at the plug, gas in the carb, and air in the filter then...

Set the slide height at 1/8 gap and leave it.

Set the air bleed screw at 1.5 turns out and then move your pilot up & down (which ever way you suspect you need) until it kick starts. Then fine adjust it with the air bleed once you got it able to be kick started.

Kiehen's are a PIA to get jetted as they are less adjustable than Mikuni's

Here are some tuning links:
http://www.carbparts.com/keihin/needles_tuning/jetting_your_carb.htm
http://www.keihincarbs.com/tips/gate.html
http://www.duncanracing.com/TechCenter/KeihinCarbJetting.pdf

#5 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 27 Mar, 2016 15:37
Thanks I will try that! What do you recommend for a carb that can be easily found? I have lived by the pwk for bikes and banshees but I see that these are more sensitive. What about Lectron or a new Mikuni? Thanks

#6 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 27 Mar, 2016 18:10
And yes let off and it dies

#7 Reply
Posted by El Diablo on 27 Mar, 2016 20:25
Quote from: PurplePeopleEater on 27 Mar, 2016 15:37
Thanks I will try that! What do you recommend for a carb that can be easily found? I have lived by the pwk for bikes and banshees but I see that these are more sensitive. What about Lectron or a new Mikuni? Thanks

Can't go wrong with a new Mikuni. Just make sure it has the proper specs before you run it

#8 Reply
Posted by Glamisrider on 28 Mar, 2016 12:37
Quote from: PurplePeopleEater on 27 Mar, 2016 15:37
Thanks I will try that! What do you recommend for a carb that can be easily found?

For that set up I'd recommend a Mikuni LT500 carb from a 88-90. Part numbers on carb throat are 43b10, 43b20, 43b30, which is also the same as the Mikuni TM 38.

If you want more horses I'd recommend getting a Jerry modified one of the above carbs with the right parts in it. Should be at least a couple people on here that have one for sale, if not Jerry can make you one but it'll be more expensive and it might be a while depending on his work load.

Running the modified carb will add a few more ponies to your set up with a bolt on replacement.

Here's what Jerry recommends for the internal parts on his modified carbs (see post #15):
http://www.suzukiquadracerhq.com/carburetor-jetting/87-z-carb-''over-the-hill''-help!!/

P.S. Going with a VM44 might diminish your power on your current set up, not sure if it will hurt it or just not be able to be fully used? Check with JH on that.

#9 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 28 Mar, 2016 13:04
I was looking at Jerrys mods on a tm38-85 and started sourcing parts but no one has the correct needle and Suzuki says it is on back order. I would love to find one on the site!

#10 Reply
Posted by Glamisrider on 29 Mar, 2016 12:52
Like I said, call Sudco

#11 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 29 Mar, 2016 13:58
Will do. Thanks for your help.
This one runs now but carb has got to go. Undersized and a Pita to not make a sacrifice somewhere. Before I get too involved I am going to replace it.

#12 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 05:34
Mind if I ask, who did your crank bearing pocket? Do both case halves need brass fitting or just stator side? What did it cost? May need mine done on 87. Never knew what I was getting into with this old Yeller/Ziller/feller, when I bought it last summer. Ouch!
Thanks Steve

#13 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 31 Mar, 2016 06:46
Quote from: 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 05:34
Mind if I ask, who did your crank bearing pocket? Do both case halves need brass fitting or just stator side? What did it cost? May need mine done on 87. Never knew what I was getting into with this old Yeller/Ziller/feller, when I bought it last summer. Ouch!
Thanks Steve
I would do both sides if I were you. You are already in there why not. I have an older friend here in south texas that did them for me. He has all the crap but getting him to do stuff is very difficult. I was in the same boat as you. Wow expensive and picky! But the fun factor makes it worth wild.
I saw that CT Racing does it for $250 I think. I only mention them because they list the price for everyone to see. I have not been a member of this site long enough to really know who to send you to. Jerry Hall and Dr Q seem to know the most as well as share the info. I have never spoke to Jerry but have read a bunch of his write ups and he make sense. DrQ has several youtube videos talked to him on the phone once. Someone else on the site will chime in that knows a little better where to tell you to go and a better idea of cost. Good luck!

#14 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 07:07
Thanks for that. I know trinity racing now Mcdermott racing in california Still does the bearing pockets. Talked to Harry Quoted $330.
Do you need to remove anything from cases like bearing that are attacked to cases?
Was there a big difference in starting after the repair?

#15 Reply
Posted by PurplePeopleEater on 31 Mar, 2016 08:29
Quote from: 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 07:07
Thanks for that. I know trinity racing now Mcdermott racing in california Still does the bearing pockets. Talked to Harry Quoted $330.
Do you need to remove anything from cases like bearing that are attacked to cases?
Was there a big difference in starting after the repair?
You will not notice any difference in starting. This mod is for reliability.
I would remove and replace all bearings and seals while the cases are split. I would also match the case half's and check the crank. I have not owned a Zilla for very long but I do know my Banshees and I would stay away from Trinity. Use someone who specializes in the Zilla. Like Jerry Hall out of AZ or Dr. Q in California.

#16 Reply
Posted by MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on 31 Mar, 2016 09:15
Quote from: 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 07:07

................... Was there a big difference in starting after the repair?

Starting problems are about 95% starting technique and having a carburetor that is set up correctly. Engines have to be in good mechanical condition to start easily. Worn piston, rings and cylinder wall can make starting difficult.

I have not seen repairing bearing pockets help starting unless the pockets are obviously letting the crank rattle around in the cases to the point the crank seals cannot stay in contact with the crankshaft. Bearing pockets that are this loose will usually make the engine sound like a bucket full of bolts rattling around.

#17 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 09:27
I'll do that, thanks. Just for the record Harry from Mcdermott Racing moved down the street away from Trinity racing. He said he's done many Zillas Since their conception. Is this person the one that did your Quads, do you know? Hate to give this guy a black eye if (Like you said) it was Trinity that did your work. Trinity said they don't do that type of work anymore and gave me Harry's #. I'll give Jerry a call and see if he can do mine, with the situation I'm having. Thanks For your help

#18 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 09:43
Brother am I thrilled to hear you say that!! Everyone saying this is whats causing hard starting issues.
When running I never hear any unusual rattling sounds coming from the engine. Idols great always! ery quick responce and fas as Greased LIGHTENING!! Proud to say!
I'll do a Windex bottle spray over top end as soon as I can get this stubborn ass to fire lol
QUESTION: If It is the bearings since I do have slight movement on crank (yet none with new seal in) Do you do the bored brass inserts and approx. price. Would both sides need this normally, since I have no way of checking the clutch side, that I know of?

#19 Reply
Posted by MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on 31 Mar, 2016 15:59
Harry Mcdermott was Trinity Racing from it's beginning up until about a year ago. He sold the Trinity name and marketing portion to what is now Trinity Racing and kept all of the machinery. It is my understanding that McDermott Racing still makes most of the parts and does the engine building and machine work as he always did when he worked under the name of Trinity Racing.

#20 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 31 Mar, 2016 16:36
I really enjoyed talking to him and he took plenty of his (I'm sure) busy schedule to make sure I was fully informed, over my pitiful little bearing pocket problem! Good old school business practices! Hard to find nowadays! Glad to hear good review and that he's still in business there, for all us!

#21 Reply
Posted by Q2W on 01 Apr, 2016 08:26
TR will do a fine job on your bearings. have them inspect your tranny as well. Just dont let them port or do anything else besides maybe reinforcing the jug. I always tell ppl i paid them 5k for a second gear, main bearings, and some really nice welding on the jug. (one of the best ive seen actually)