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Lt500 Motor
Posted by
Sandman
on 19 Dec, 2012 10:10
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Was wondering the possibilities of a twin cylinder Zilla motor.. I mean there is triple cylinder banshees, why can't we have a twin cylinder 500 motor!?!? I sure would love to have one!! May have to do some research on some machinists
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#1 Reply
Posted by
El Diablo
on 19 Dec, 2012 10:43
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That would be a great idea except that the individuals or companies that have the capability to machine out the custom parts want lots of money. Lets take baby steps first and maybe start off with a Roid then a Liger. But even those are out of reach of most riders. There was a Roid on Ebay not too long ago that went for around $3500 (someone correct me on this). And on the old site, Hybrid Engineering mentioned that a complete running Liger was around $9,500-$10,000. You could count on probably doubling that figure for a twin zilla.
PS: Now if someone would work for beer, I got two 30pks in the fridge that I would donate to the cause.
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#2 Reply
Posted by
Sandman
on 19 Dec, 2012 12:45
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I'd buy the keg!!
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Was wondering the possibilities of a twin cylinder Zilla motor.. I mean there is triple cylinder banshees, why can't we have a twin cylinder 500 motor!?!? I sure would love to have one!! May have to do some research on some machinists
A twin cylinder engine of that size will have a balance problem. A huge counter balancer can be added but will only be a band-aid for the rocking couple that is inherent with any twin cylinder 180 deg engine.
Ask some of the guys that have spent thousands for the custom Matoon cases and the CP 1000cc twin cylinder kits why their drag frames will not last more than a few race days. Ask them why their engines are constantly siezing because the vibration foams the fuel in the float bowls and leans the mixture. Ask them why the vibrations aggravate the vegus nerve in their chest and their heart rhythm is altered and paralyzes their diaphragm so that they cannot breathe.
A twin cylinder's rocking couple gets worse as the distance between the cylinders is increased and the piston and rod assemblies become heavier. The weight of the components and the distance between cylinders has to increase as the displacements of the individual cylinders are increased. Machinist can build large displacement two cylinder engines have but will not be able to overcome the basic design hurdles inherant with the 180 deg twin cylinders.
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#4 Reply
Posted by
Rainman56
on 19 Dec, 2012 17:25
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[/quote]
Ask them why the vibrations aggravate the vegus nerve in their chest and their heart rhythm is altered and paralyzes their diaphragm so that they cannot breathe.
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For real???
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Ask them why the vibrations aggravate the vegus nerve in their chest and their heart rhythm is altered and paralyzes their diaphragm so that they cannot breathe.
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For real???
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Low frequency, loud noise can affect people differently. Some vibrations frequencies applied to the upper torso can slow or stop the heart and or breathing in some people. It is not usually fatal but will cause pople to faint or pass out.
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#6 Reply
Posted by
Stpltn250r
on 19 Dec, 2012 19:27
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Drag frames lasting a few race days? Thats a little far fetched. I know of a few personally that have been together for 4+ years now and still going and hold unlimited record runnin all motor. Guees what there alot bigger than 1000cc twins.
I have emailed matoon before and blantly stated that it would be a 10g minimum and doesnt really have any time for b/c there is no market for it. The only viable option for billet cases for a single would be to run a set of caracal cases and have one side of the cases chopped off. Its been done before.
Or run a twin liger set up. Than add the billet crank, rods, tranny, primary, basket for 10 plate set up, bearing support, pipes, reeds, intakes, carbs with huge bowls, ignition. That's probably 30g's.
Just get a arctic cat m1000 and get cutlers big bore(liger) and be way above 1000cc and 200hp.
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#7 Reply
Posted by
El Diablo
on 19 Dec, 2012 19:35
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The Vegus nerve is also responsible for the infamous "Commode Code". When some people sit on the toilet & over push themself, the vegus nerve gets stimulated & drops your pulse rate, sometimes to zero! This causes the person to faint. And yes, some people buy the farm while on the throne.
This is the un-glorius side of being an EMT.
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Note to self do not rush my number 2's anymore!!!
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#9 Reply
Posted by
Dezsled
on 19 Dec, 2012 23:34
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Interesting how a engine design thread took this turn to sheit!
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Maybe a different approach is needed.
Instead of an inline twin, something more along the lines of a RGV250 or HD V-twin.
Once the custom built case, crank, and stronger transmission/clutch was sorted, the only issue at that point would be to design a set of pipes for clearance.
Room would have to be made inside the frame, but let's be serious and ask ourselves how many guys would buy an engine like this and NOT put it in a fully custom built drag frame.
Furthermore, if we're going to be serious about it...the amount of money spent on such a built could easily buy a RGV500 or an all-out banshee drag engine, both of which would probably be a better choice.
No, the name of the game in the LT world is getting up to a certain aftermarket banshee build for half the money or less.
Getting equivalent power gains for an LT to be top dog in the 2-stroke world is not an economically sound decision.
You'll spend more money on an LT to be competitive than you would on a banshee or perhaps even a 250r.
In other words, if you want to really go fast, buy a different engine platform to sink money into and the returns will still be positive.
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#11 Reply
Posted by
Stpltn250r
on 20 Dec, 2012 06:29
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^^^^^Yep
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Drag frames lasting a few race days? Thats a little far fetched. I know of a few personally that have been together for 4+ years now and still going and hold unlimited record runnin all motor. Guees what there alot bigger than 1000cc twins.
I have emailed matoon before and blantly stated that it would be a 10g minimum and doesnt really have any time for b/c there is no market for it. The only viable option for billet cases for a single would be to run a set of caracal cases and have one side of the cases chopped off. Its been done before.
Or run a twin liger set up. Than add the billet crank, rods, tranny, primary, basket for 10 plate set up, bearing support, pipes, reeds, intakes, carbs with huge bowls, ignition. That's probably 30g's.
Just get a arctic cat m1000 and get cutlers big bore(liger) and be way above 1000cc and 200hp.
Does the Arctic Cat M1000 have a counter balancer?
Did any of the other 1000cc plus drag twins have counter balancers?
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#13 Reply
Posted by
Stpltn250r
on 20 Dec, 2012 09:07
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Dont think so. By looking at the online schematic dont look like the f1000 or m1000 run one. Banshees dont have a counter balancer.
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#14 Reply
Posted by
Toydoc
on 21 Dec, 2012 01:43
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Drag frames lasting a few race days? Thats a little far fetched. I know of a few personally that have been together for 4+ years now and still going and hold unlimited record runnin all motor. Guees what there alot bigger than 1000cc twins.
I have emailed matoon before and blantly stated that it would be a 10g minimum and doesnt really have any time for b/c there is no market for it. The only viable option for billet cases for a single would be to run a set of caracal cases and have one side of the cases chopped off. Its been done before.
Or run a twin liger set up. Than add the billet crank, rods, tranny, primary, basket for 10 plate set up, bearing support, pipes, reeds, intakes, carbs with huge bowls, ignition. That's probably 30g's.
Just get a arctic cat m1000 and get cutlers big bore(liger) and be way above 1000cc and 200hp.
Does the Arctic Cat M1000 have a counter balancer?
Did any of the other 1000cc plus drag twins have counter balancers?
Way back when we use balance the rotating assembly on big twins, take most of the shake out of them. But they would lose a tad of hp after the balance. Now you just let them shake and add a fluid balancer if you want to take some bang out it. You really don't feel a big twin shake under power, just at idle. My 1000cc 4cyl is 180 fire, so it swings 1&3, 2&4 to TDC at the same time. Less issue and more power then smooth 90* fire at 10,200 rpm. Just sucks to pull it over by hand when it's freezing outside.
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Way back when we use balance the rotating assembly on big twins, take most of the shake out of them. But they would lose a tad of hp after the balance. Now you just let them shake and add a fluid balancer if you want to take some bang out it. You really don't feel a big twin shake under power, just at idle. My 1000cc 4cyl is 180 fire, so it swings 1&3, 2&4 to TDC at the same time. Less issue and more power then smooth 90* fire at 10,200 rpm. Just sucks to pull it over by hand when it's freezing outside.
Was this a V 4 or an inline 4. If it was an inline 4 the math says swinging !&4, 2&3 to TDC at the same time should produce the best overall balance. Did you run 4 separate pipes or make two 2 into 1 pipes and couple the cylinders that were at TDC at the same time?
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#16 Reply
Posted by
Toydoc
on 04 Jan, 2013 03:44
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It's inline. 90* fire is the best on paper. Real world they like to shake, test, test, test. 4 pipes on all of my 4 cly's
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#18 Reply
Posted by
RSSS396
on 20 Jan, 2013 08:07
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Way back when we use balance the rotating assembly on big twins, take most of the shake out of them. But they would lose a tad of hp after the balance. Now you just let them shake and add a fluid balancer if you want to take some bang out it. You really don't feel a big twin shake under power, just at idle. My 1000cc 4cyl is 180 fire, so it swings 1&3, 2&4 to TDC at the same time. Less issue and more power then smooth 90* fire at 10,200 rpm. Just sucks to pull it over by hand when it's freezing outside.
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who is making the fluid dampers? I thought I remember them being made a while ago but have not heard of anything lately.
I have a arctic cat 900 based snowmobile motor in a quad that had Hooper's 1100 kit and now a 1000 CPC kit, and they do not shake to bad at idle but smooths out pretty good even revving it to 8500rpms.
The motor is rubber mounted and fuel issues have not been a issue luckily for me even at those rpms.
I also have a M1000 snowmobile and it seams about the same at idle and also smooths out real good over idle. The M1000 are best not to let idle for long periods of time or the rubber mounts get stressed and tear.
My 600cc cr500 based Liger on the other hand has been a vibrating monster and is solid mounted.
The vibrations are bearable for the rider as a drag bike racing in the dunes where you may make a dozen passes but the vibration has caused tuning nightmares. I have consistently battled with foaming the fuel in the bowl.
Problem is the foaming is not consistent, so it can have huge jetting swings from the bowls wanting to overflow to running dry.
going to try a pass through style bowl with foam like the Kart guys use. No float needle is used, just one pump to fill the bowl and another to suck the bowl out at a set bowl height. If this does not work then my only other alternative is to try EFI which eliminates any kind of bowl in the system.
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