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Author Topic: Ignition swap  (Read 3478 times)

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Ignition swap
« on: June 25, 2015, 02:10:51 am »
Ive always wondered what a diffrent ignition would perform like on the 500 like how the 250r guys use the cr ignition. We dont have any options. I know stapleton did it with an msd on his bike im just curious ive never really seen it disgused before. Ive used pvls in the past with decent results but they are a **** to start. Whats your thoughts?
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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 06:19:16 am »
A friend of mine really wants to use the MSD ignition.  I think he's more curious than anything about it. 

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2015, 11:45:19 am »
Programmable CDI are useless unless you know what you are doing.

Wonder how the zilla would do with a nology coil. I know on the banshee it did give off a better spark which made starting easier and seemed to rev better, but never seen proof of any power increase.

I figure on a zilla with high compression (200psi+), the hotter stronger spark could help. Has anyone ever tried on before?

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2015, 01:34:43 pm »
Programmable CDI  anything are useless unless you know what you are doing.


haha

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 03:49:16 pm »
I tryed one... i think it was defective tho it ran like ****. Then i sold it to a buddy who put it on his kx and it ran like **** on his bike.
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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2015, 07:07:18 pm »
An ignition will improve engine power if it can produce a spark at a better time that will produce peak cylinder pressure at the right time or the power will suffer if the spark did not have enough voltage to jump the gap and initiate a combustion event on EVERY engine rotation.

An ignition coil cannot deliver more energy to the spark plug than is generated by the stator unless the control unit is getting additional power from another source.

The energy (power) generated by the stator can be manipulated by devices in the spark plug wires that have circuits with capacitors that reduce the spark duration but increase the peak voltage. Most of the aftermarket devices that I have used that involve special wires, different coils, plug caps that have magical devices in them have tested to be snake oil. 

Dont be fooled by the demonstrations that show a whiter spark, a spark that jumps a wider gap or the increase noise or pop when the spark occurs.  These devices do not change the power delivered to the plug but compress the power into a shorter spark duration.  A high voltage spark of a long duration is the best way to initiate a combustion event.   

Ignition coils with different turns ratios can increase the  peak voltage at the expense or reducing the current and spark duration. 

One way I have found to determine if a programmable ignition would benefit a particular engine is to try many different timing settings by advancing or retarding the timing by rotating the stator a degree at a time .  If the OEM timing curve is not what the engine wants at all RPMs, we will see the power improve in the RPM ranges where the engine liked the new timing setting and the power will decreases in the RPM ranges where the timing in the OEM curve was optimum from the factory. 

With my current engine packages for the LT500s (ports, pipes, heads, carbs and reeds) the OEM timing curve seems to be very close to what the engine wants at all RPMs.  If I advance the timing more than one degree power usually suffers through out the whole usable RPM range and retarding more than 1 degrees has similar results. 

If you have a good OEM CDI box and stator I do not think that you will benefit from using any of the aftermarket ignition assemblies or coils, wires etc.  unless you are doing something that is vastly different than the zillions of things I have tried over the years.


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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2015, 08:08:54 pm »
Just put a roost boost on it and your good to go. ;D
Can,t fix stupid.:)

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 02:47:44 am »
I always thought it would be a good idea to try a late model rm250 ignition on my 500 until I read Motorgeeks post...now I realize it is probably a terrible idea haha. One of the main reasons for the ignition swap on our 250R's is to make them easier to start when they're bored out because the stock ignition becomes almost inadequate at kick over rpm.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 06:43:36 pm »
That thief/hack Matt Hatfield told me that he has put CR ignitions in Zuki's before :))

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 08:12:32 pm »
I like it. Haven't messed with it in about 2yrs.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 06:19:42 pm »
little bit of the stuff for the swap. minus the custom flywheel, magnets, timing plat and the battery plate that holds the milwaukee cordless batteries. so roughly already $750 not including the stuff listed in the text. I know the battery plate was at least $150. so $900.

almost forgot, plus you need a desktop or laptop custom cable that plugs to the MSD (serial port cable to usb). so there's that cost also.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 04:06:16 pm »
I run a CR250 ignition on my lt500

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 06:33:17 pm »
I run a CR250 ignition on my lt500
Do you have any pictures and what year?

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 08:02:15 pm »
Its likely a 2001 ignition. They have the best curve(for the CR, and TRX for that matter).

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 09:29:11 pm »
That was my guess as well

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2015, 06:52:29 am »
I think it was an 01, I've actually got it off right now so I can take some pictures later of the adapter plate.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2015, 07:35:54 am »
Got some more info?
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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2015, 07:01:10 pm »
I didn't make it to the shop tonight to take any pics, I know you have to either get the flywheel rekeyed or just not run a key is what I did, the taper is the same so it locks on tight just make sure it's in the right spot before you lock it down.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2015, 08:49:21 pm »
Only thing about the 00 and 01 cr250 ignitions they are getting hard to find and expensive too, as well as loosing your lighting ability.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2015, 06:17:37 am »
I run a CR250 ignition on my lt500

Red don't you run a full custom set up with a custom hand made triple port cylinder, custom hand coned pipe, and custom porting that you did all YOURSELF? 

I assume because you did all of this yourself that you designed the ports, the pipe to work best with the CR timing curve and that is why you can & are running the CR ignition (CDI & Stator)?

Wouldn't just slapping a CR stator & CDI on a stock zilla make it run like crap because the timing curve does not match the port timing or the pipe design?

I'm still learning and trying to understand this.

Thanks


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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2015, 12:01:01 pm »
My question would be then why can you put the a 250r and not have issues?

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2015, 12:47:33 pm »
The timing curve is aggressive on the cr hence why drag racers love them. Years ago i ran pvls the bike honestly ran crazy when u advanced the timing but the downfall was the timing was set. So it was a **** to start.
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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2015, 06:14:01 pm »
Lmao yeah I run a full custom setup or did when I was racing that I done myself, but Idk about all that fancy stuff I'm more of a bolt it on and see if it works kinda guy if it does run it if not don't, it worked for me but it might not for you! ;)

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 01:59:08 pm »
Here's the setup I ran and the adapter plate, I'm not sure what year it is but it ran great on my quad, the only reason I'm not running it now is because I can't run a head light with it.

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Re: Ignition swap
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2015, 04:40:19 pm »
Is this something your thinking about selling because you do not use it anymore? And I read somewhere that the 87' years had the best timing curve for the stock bolt on type of guy
87 Zilla dune build
87 Zilla banana build
89 Lt250 Bartlett trail port
95 Lt80 kids build
97 yfs200 blaster kids build

 

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