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copper head gasket question
Posted by
Yagerzzz
on 15 Feb, 2015 22:13
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Guys, my son is putting back together an '89 zilla top end, and I bought a copper head gasket for him. It was one that was thinner than normal that I thought we'd try as it would raise compression. My son cleaned the surfaces, installed the gasket and head and torqued to factory specs per the Suzuki manual. It leaked as soon as antifreeze was added back to the radiator. I wasn't completely suprised since the gasket was so thin. I ordered him another copper head gasket, this time a thicker one. Once again, it leaked as soon as he added the antifreeze.
This was not leaking before with the non-copper stockish style head gasket, so I don't think it's an issue with the surfaces not being flat. Do you guys use gasket sealer on these? Before I buy a third head gasket, I want to see if I can get one of these to work that I already bought.
Suggestions? If gasket sealer is the answer, what type would you recommend? If a non-copper head gasket is the answer, any particular one you would recommend or stay away from? What about torque specs? Do you guys go higher than what the book calls for? It has the factory stepped head studs that 88-90 have.
Also, the piston is a 87.5mm bore (1.50 oversize.) I was nervous buying just any gasket because I wasn't sure if a factory one would have a big enough diameter. The last copper one I bought specifically said it was good for 86mm - 88m (or 89mm, I can't remember), so I felt reassured that it would at least work size wise. And sure enough, it was big enough to clear the piston. I don't have a stock one to compare to, so I just wasn't sure if factory ones were limited to certain sized pistons.
Thanks!
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#1 Reply
Posted by
LT500Kid
on 16 Feb, 2015 05:58
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Don't use the upper head motor mount for starters. You may have an uneven head or top of your cylinder. If it leaked right away. If you get the head o ringed you will never have a leaking head gasket again
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#2 Reply
Posted by
Mtsnieg
on 16 Feb, 2015 07:08
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I run a copper head gasket on my ATC250R. I've had the
head off and on at least a dozen times, same gasket and no leaks. You must use a sealer with with them. I use the Permatex copper spray can sealer.
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#3 Reply
Posted by
Q2W
on 16 Feb, 2015 10:43
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you must use gasket sealer or it will leak. Been running the same copper head gasket for 10 years now. And x2 on not using the head stay. You dont want that torquing on your head.
I use 3bond 1211.
Also, you can call cometic if you dont want to use copper. They have some special ones and make them per your bore size. I forget the name but they are different than the ones you buy off the net. Im sure someone can chime in.
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#4 Reply
Posted by
Yagerzzz
on 16 Feb, 2015 11:26
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Ok, thanks guys. I'll try some gasket sealer or copper spray. I'll also double check the surfaces.
Thanks,
yagerzzz
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#5 Reply
Posted by
Buckeye513
on 17 Feb, 2015 08:15
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I used yamabond on mine, lol it was all I had but it hasn't leaked yet. Going to have my spare head o ringed if you can do it that's the way to go. Good luck.
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#6 Reply
Posted by
GrkGuy
on 17 Feb, 2015 15:53
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Just go with the oem gasket or the cometic, way to much stuff goes wrong with the copper gaskets.
I even think Mitch sells them in the store on here.
Good luck.
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#7 Reply
Posted by
Ywnmn
on 27 Sep, 2015 17:10
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Did you anneal the copper ? Heat till red and sit on concrete or steel to cool. It will make it softer. Mine did the same thing. annealed it, cleaned with brake clean and scotch brite, good as gold with two coats of copper spray and torque.
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#8 Reply
Posted by
cworobec
on 27 Sep, 2015 17:22
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I've never had a problem with mine so far.
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#9 Reply
Posted by
Ywnmn
on 13 Dec, 2015 13:46
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Now Im having trouble getting my copper gasket. LOL I should've knocked on wood. Looking for a o ring head now.
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#10 Reply
Posted by
Motoman991
on 15 Dec, 2015 05:23
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I did use a copper head gasket on mine. The thing was a leaky POS. I now have an o-ring head.
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#11 Reply
Posted by
cworobec
on 15 Dec, 2015 07:30
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I've had a copper gasket on mine for years with no issues.
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It has been my experience that copper is not resilient enough to conform and continue to exert enough force over the microscopic imperfections that appear when the engine is up to operating temperature and the distortion that occurs due to combustion pressure on each power stroke. A head gasket has to be able to flex and conform to these moving surfaces over a hundred times per second to provide 100% sealing.
The quality of the sealant is what is largely responsible for the sealing action when a copper head gasket is used. I do not recommend doing this ( has been done when doing dyno testing) but the copper gasket is basically a spacer and similar sealing results can be obtained using a good sealant between the head and cylinder providing the head was machine to provide the correct squish clearance and volume.
A rubber o-ring, conventional composition type head gaskets or stainless steel gasket that has embossed ribs do a much better job of sealing of these moving sealing surfaces.
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I sell copper films, the folks that laser or water jet use what is called 1/2 hard copper, there are usually 4 grades Hard, 1/2 Hard 1/4 Hard and Soft, all will machine nicely except the soft grade, if you bend it it will crease, and work harden, they can be stamped out and even have emboss rings for sealing , but can only be used once due to the crushing when torqued , this is why the best deal is to go through a builder and get your head or cylinder O ringed correctly, cheaper to keep extra O rings in the tool box
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#14 Reply
Posted by
Ywnmn
on 16 Dec, 2015 16:39
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I agree 100%. Doesn't make sense to continually have to replace gaskets if it's not necessary. I'm gonna get it done near winters end.
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