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its been a shelved project for a few years now. I was to hung up on my 485 cheetah and I just lost focus of things. the other night I was riding with a friend who has a lt250, sortly after I went out to the bar where someone else I know pulls up on a zilla. I was lucky enough to get offered a ride on his bike, despite my better judgment. now I have the zilla fever. despite my cheetah being a 95hp zoo-animal, the torque on the zilla is scary....
the chassis for the bike will not be a zilla. or anything you can buy. right now that's my main focus so the motor will be shelved for atleast another 6 months. but in the down time I started work on polishing the jug.
a few things about the motor. its a 87 (large reed, 6 stud). the cases as in ruff shape. I haven't confirmed this but I think they might not be matching. the bearings fell out of the bosses without a hammer or press...... theres damage everywhere. the clutch basket was also shot but otherwise everything looked alright. I plan on buying new oem cases, but I was wanting to use the 90's cases with a 87 top end. I know a few thing such as the counter balancer will need to be swaped in order to assemble properly, but I was wondering what info is out there about this 87 jug-90case hybrid.
im deff going to call jerry hall as soon as im ready to drop in the motor, im not gunna waste the guys time when im not ready. things Im gunna get done are
porting(just matching and cleaning)
boss inserts(despite being new cases)
o ring the head----does anyone recommend a cool head vs stock head?
decompression button(if they still do that)
hopefully that's it.
not trying to build a big bore here. or a drag motor. just a super clean, more reliable-owner friendly zilla motor. the stock motor is hands down my favorite motor in a production atv. asking for more cc or hp seems like a death threat so im avoiding this.. -
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and for a spoiler....
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It's hard to beat the torque of stock zilla engine much less one that has been properly modified for optimized torque. Just so you know, the 87 jug along with all associated components will fit on any later case & vise versa. Your builder of choice knows a thing or two about these engines & is known world wide for his work. It sounds like what you might want is his dune ported build. If you go this route, you might as well also pick up one of his pipes as well. You won't be disappointed.
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pipe might not work due to the smaller/tighter frame geometry. matt shear has built a few custom ones ive seen, maybe if im lucky itll only be mounting brackets that need to be custom.
right on with the case info. I wanna make sure I don't order the "wrong" one. I think I just remember hearing the cases are a little better for the 90's. could be foggy memories of old post though. -
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New cases WILL NOT be cheap. You're looking at around 1200 bucks!!!!
The 87 crankcases supersede to the ones used on the 88-90.
Where is the clutch basket shot? Aluminum or steel?
The balancer doesn't need to be updated to work in different cases. An 87 balancer MUST be used with an 87 seal, and the same with the 88-90 balancer and seal.
If you are going to put inserts in anyway, get a good used set of cases and save big time money!
A cool head can be used with O-ring, but the coolant passages must be modified to flow correctly in the correct areas.
From what I recall, the cool head dome can be modified with a decomp release, but I'm not positive.
That cylinder looks like the head area has been decked quite a bit.
That sleeve looks kinda thin too. What's the bore at?
You should get the cylinder modified to use 88-90 head studs.
Legend has it that the 87 cases didn't have a steel insert for the MAG side, and the 88-90s did, but I can neither confirm nor deny this.
And if you want a reliable Zilla, many more things should be addressed. -
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500's are the shizzle..........probably the reason I have 2 of them and working on a extra motor.
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New cases WILL NOT be cheap. You're looking at around 1200 bucks!!!! -----------wanna talk about expensive. try a 73mm cheetah pistons............
The 87 crankcases supersede to the ones used on the 88-90.-------------come agian
Where is the clutch basket shot? Aluminum or steel?-------looked like a stock basket. aluminum i believe. the rivets had been worn so badly the primary gear can be moved around
The balancer doesn't need to be updated to work in different cases. An 87 balancer MUST be used with an 87 seal, and the same with the 88-90 balancer and seal.--perfect!
If you are going to put inserts in anyway, get a good used set of cases and save big time money!-----------------------------no such thing as good used cases. this is a 2013 motor
A cool head can be used with O-ring, but the coolant passages must be modified to flow correctly in the correct areas.-------hopefully this will be part of the porting.
From what I recall, the cool head dome can be modified with a decomp release, but I'm not positive. --------yea i broke my shoe in half when i had it together.
That cylinder looks like the head area has been decked quite a bit.-----------------why do u say that
That sleeve looks kinda thin too. What's the bore at?----------------------------------never measured, i though it looked pretty normal
You should get the cylinder modified to use 88-90 head studs.-----------------------forgot to add that. this will be done forsure
Legend has it that the 87 cases didn't have a steel insert for the MAG side, and the 88-90s did, but I can neither confirm nor deny this.----i did notice a insert on the mag side. i though this was weird.
And if you want a reliable Zilla, many more things should be addressed.-----------------------like what, remember this is suppose to be a stock engine beside maybe carb/pipe combo. all im trying to accomplish with the "2013 motor" is make it so i can take it out deep into the wood/dunes and not need a tow rope. im sick of having a banshee with 95 hp and 99 problems. ya feel me? a wise man would say, buy a 4 stroke. no thanks...maybe a ltr450....maybe
i have a butload of parts laying around in boxes. gotta see what i wanna use and or ditch. forsure though
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I would get the rear cylinder ears welded too if ur going to port the cylinder, my buddy's cylinder **** on both sides not that long ago. From the studs Right up into the intake. I'm sure Jerry will tell you about the mod. anyway.
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Looks like no 1 else is gonna say it. ure not plabning on putting a zilla motor in a tecate4 are u? tecates have the worst frame geometry ive ever seen.
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That jug does look like its been decked alot. Maybe its the way the picture is.
If you want reliable, I would not do anything more than a clean up port job. -
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tecates have the worst frame geometry ive ever seen.
Doug Roll tried afew front ends trying to get the Tecate to handle
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Re-enforce the ears before you put a lot of time and money into polishing the cylinder. The cylinder also needs some welding repair to build up the area where an ill-fitting pipe has be against the cylinder near the head gasket surface.
A note to all that are considering polishing their head and cylinder:
We are currently working on another cylinder and head that someone got carried away when polishing. The o-ring that fits into the space between the studs and the outside of the head needs a specific dimension so the o-ring will properly fit the groove. The proper 0-ring groove dimension sets the o-ring groove very close to the outer edge of a stock unpolished head. When the head and or the top of the cylinder is sanded, ground on and or over-polished, we often have to make the o-ring's groove outside diameter smaller than the recommended groove specification. A smaller than specification o-ring groove dimension makes it more difficult to keep the o-ring in the groove during installation.
We have had to weld up the outer perimeter of the head and cylinder on a number of top ends where the polishers took a millimeter or more off in this critical area. Polishing can make o-ringing a head very expensive. Alert your polisher to stay away from this area.
If you stock head needs replacing and you cannot find an OEM head at a cheap price, use a cool head. New OEM heads are now over $700.00. If you order a cool head, order it with a blank dome or something around 50 cc to 53 cc so that there is enough material so that we can machine the shape on the combustion chamber we like.
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I,know what ur think,and ur right. It will be a tecate5 with a one off frame based on a yfz450. Tecates frame are......obsolete. Honestly the only tecate parts will be seat subframe and plastic. I promise. All the parts for the frame I have. 19.5lt Elka fronts, lsr swing arm with Ella linkage, all hubs are lsr, lsr axle, yfz double piston calipers, hipper rims with hole shots, yfz stock front end that will be adjusted for a narrow chassis and then maybe replaced. Don't have a rear stock ATM.
Why not use a yfz u ask. Simple, im building a knock of laegers narrow chassis. I've rode the yfz a lot, its nice but not perfect, id like to try the yrz450r. This is best left as "still to come", despite all the pieces of my puzzle are on shelves.
The polishing work is all me. So no money is being spent, I will remember to neglect the head and ear area. I won't mind if I gotta go back later and re polish, right now I wanna get rid of the casting bubbles. It will need some welding, I'm aware of this and this is also why im posting this at least 6 months in advance so that I know what needs to be done.
My head appears to be fine. Just wasnt sure on ppls feeling on it or the cool head.
So far thanks for all the replies -
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So last night I was looking for cases and I relized that most cases come serial# labled. Mine had been ground off and not to mention I'm almost positive they arnt matching. The clutch side appears to have some kind of insert, not mag side. My bad. So now that I'm thinking back on it, this motor is probaly either stolen and or a PA atv shop special. I was pulled over before and they ran the vin and it did not come back as reported "stolen". There was no tittle though and the motor is in pretty ruff shape so I can't imagine anyone missing the pile I have.
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"wanna talk about expensive. try a 73mm cheetah pistons"
Surely they're not 600 bucks a piece...
"come again"
Yes. Suzuki must've changed something minor in the cases after the 87 models.
"looked like a stock basket. aluminum i believe. the rivets had been worn so badly the primary gear can be moved around"
OK. Get a Hinson basket.
"no such thing as good used cases. this is a 2013 motor"
Sure there is. And a 1986 based engine built in13 isn't a 13 engine sadly...
"hopefully this will be part of the porting."
Probably not, but Jerry can do that.
"yea i broke my shoe in half when i had it together."
You need boots.
"why do u say that"
The area where the head goes looks thin on the sides to me.
"never measured, i though it looked pretty normal"
Measure it. If it needs a bore and it's at 89.5, it'll need a sleeve.
"forgot to add that. this will be done forsure"
Jerry can do that.
"i did notice a insert on the mag side. i though this was weird."
Maybe someone already inserted them. Got a picture?
"like what, remember this is suppose to be a stock engine beside maybe carb/pipe combo. all im trying to accomplish with the "2013 motor" is make it so i can take it out deep into the wood/dunes and not need a tow rope."
All the stuff I said in the other post.
"im sick of having a banshee with 95 hp and 99 problems. ya feel me?"
Can't say that I do. I've never owned or even ridden a Banshee. Too degrading.
"a wise man would say, buy a 4 stroke."
He's not wise at all then.
"no thanks...maybe a ltr450....maybe"
06s had frame problems, all have trans problems and shift problems. -
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I have brand new OE cases I'd consider selling. If interested shoot me a pm.
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i dont think new cases from the factory come with a number on them. Kinda like the NOS frames.
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That is correct, no numbers on new cases from Suzuki.
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Looks like that crankcase saw some shrapnel at some point
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doubt that the case, with these cases. theres also a mysterious scratch zig zaging but its block out by the flash. the crank case looks like it survived the great depression
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Looks like the Clutch side was original and the Mag side was a replacement (hence no numbers)? Could you buy just one side?
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from what im told it dosnt work like that, cases are casted and machined in set. unlike most marriage's, these 2 are an exact fit for each other and should never be split up. plus both sides are pretty ****.
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Getting 2 odd case halves on a zuki are difficult to match. Suzukis quality control I don't think existed with quadracers.
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U mean 2 smoke quad Racers
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