Author Topic: Why do banshees always have cylinders nickacilled and LT500 dont (Read 1914 times)

QuadMan8 · « **on:** October 06, 2013, 10:02:02 pm »

K&T Racing is building my friend a nice 4 mill ported cub 421 banshee- THe top end is being rebuild and had to be sent off somewhere in the midwest to have the cub cylinders nickasill (spelling) plating redone.

What exactly does nickacill plating do and if its good for a 97hp Shee is it good for our Zillas? PRos and cons would be nice.

Dwilkins126 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2013, 10:55:51 pm »

"This coating allowed aluminum cylinders and pistons to work directly against each other with low wear and friction. Unlike other methods, including cast iron cylinder liners, Nikasil allowed very large cylinder bores with tight tolerances and thus allowed existing engine designs to be expanded easily." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil. Just one quote. Basically, it allows them to run big bores that last longer. It is worth every penny if you are building a drag bike like a 4mill banshee.

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2013, 12:15:25 am »

Stock banshee cylinder with iron sleeves aren't nikasil'd. Cast aluminum cylinders get nikasil because its a super hard coating and can withstand constant wear. Most of CP Industries cylinders are coated. You can have them built with sleeves. Millennium Technologies are the ones doing the electroplating with the nikasil. K&T does some damn good work.

Think the 540 motors had nikasil at one time to keep from wearing and cracking the sleeve. Could he wrong on that though.

You can have you cylinder nikasil. Just have to remove all steel parts from the cylinder because the cleaning solution they use is caustic and it will eat it up. But won't hurt the sleeve because it will he prepped for the plating. Just have to have someone that has a diamond tipped hone and have it ported before the plating. I have been told the.plating

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2013, 12:17:21 am »

...isn't very nice on porting bits.

Sorry for the two posts. Phone wouldn't let me scroll down.

My next bike will he a nikasil set of cylinders. 14 mile DM on alky and spray.

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2013, 06:07:09 am »

Another benefit is the cylinder walls are super wear resistent with the niki coating, basically meaning unless you have a catostrophic failure, you can just change pistons and rings every few seasons. Also get any porting work done before you nikisil.

James Dandy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2013, 06:18:32 pm »

Nikasil is awesome. My YZ came frome the factory with it. Never had it bored. Maybe had 3 passes of a ball hone thru it in 2 solid years of hard riding/motocross racing. The second piston I put in it was a vertex black moly coated high compression piston. I replaced the rings in it once about a year later and the cylinder still looked brand new.
I'd like like to have my LT cylinder nikasil coated when I reach my max bore size. I'd also like to figure out how to coat a weisco with whatever vertex puts on their pistons.

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 08, 2013, 10:05:08 pm »

Your wasting your money coating a qr piston skirt. They break long before they wear.

All American · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2013, 03:50:40 pm »

Can other wear and tear items be done such as tranny gears?

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2013, 07:46:17 pm »

Tranny gears should be back cut, micro-polished then cryogenized.

Dezsled · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2013, 07:48:38 pm »

Do they recommend shot peening any more?

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2013, 07:59:29 pm »

The cryo is similar, I remember shot peening rods on chevys.

Buckeye513 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2013, 08:06:19 pm »

How much does it run to have a cylinder nikasiled?

Dezsled · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2013, 08:09:56 pm »

I just googled this

http://www.kenoconnorracing.com/Cylinder%20Sleeves.html

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 2013, 09:14:36 pm »

Northwest sleeve was cheaper for me.

Iceracer · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2013, 08:03:04 am »

NW sleeves will out wear any other sleeve I have seen 3-1.
We used to use them in our big bore sleds, we had one that we seized a couple times one winter messing with timing and compression ratios. all we had to do was give it a quick hone to clean the aluminum out after hitting it with acid and we were good to go. after about 5 pistons we had to go up a size. Do that with another brand sleeve.

Chuckie25 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2013, 08:57:12 am »

I should have my 88 nic'd... I think I will after I've worn this last bore out.

With a cylider like mine, when it's recoated it'll be forever on the final bore? Or can they coat them to say like 1-2 bores before final bore? It'd probably be better performance wise to stick with the bigger bore huh? Also cheaper because that would have to be a lot of building up of plating to get a few bore sizes back,,,,

Dezsled · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2013, 09:20:06 am »

When a cylinder is cast for a iron sleeve, can the steel be bored out and a aluminum sleeve be installed then nikasil coated?

This is a trx250r cylinder that doesn't have a steel sleeve but has a nikasil kind of liner the term used was chrome bore. Not many of these around I was told

GrkGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2013, 10:14:48 am »

maybe that not a good thing dez, thats why there arent to many of them.

Dezsled · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2013, 03:35:37 pm »

Could be john, but it revved freer than a iron sleeve cyl

Mugen made something similar also

Sorry to

All American · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2013, 03:43:24 pm »

Now you guys got me thinking about having my 86' done after it gets rebuilt. If you think about it, the money you would save over the course of several rebuilds, it will pay for itself eventually.

All American · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2013, 03:49:35 pm »

Is it possible to have an engine cryo'd then cylinder nik'd? I wonder how much stronger it all would be, and how longer it would last. Ewwwww. Here is a thought......nik'd rings on piston.

GrkGuy · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2013, 04:47:42 pm »

would you have to run a coated piston then, or will the pro lite work just as good.

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2013, 04:51:28 pm »

Quote from: All American on December 10, 2013, 03:49:35 pm

Is it possible to have an engine cryo'd then cylinder nik'd? I wonder how much stronger it all would be, and how longer it would last. Ewwwww. Here is a thought......nik'd rings on piston.

1. Yes 2. ?? 3. No, possibly a moly coating, but the pistons we have to deal with are junk anyway. The whole point with a Niki'ed cylinder is change the piston and rings after a certain run time. Wiseco pistons kinda wear out fast.

PCS · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2013, 06:25:02 pm »

had my ltr piston coated by these guys
http://www.engine-machining.com/My%20Web%20Sites/EngCoat1.htm
the U.S. car manufactuers are finally catching on to this (behind the imports) and appling coatings on oem engines.

Iceracer · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2013, 07:54:05 pm »

Us chrome will nik your Iron bore. Yes you can aluminum sleeve a cyl and then coat it. Problem will be expansion rates of two different aluminums probably can work around this and possibly heat transfer due to the aluminum oxide formation on the two where they meet. I'm sure there's a chemical process that cod take care of this also.
An aluminum sleeve would need to be twice as thick as the steel for the lower ears to hold up.

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Author Topic: Why do banshees always have cylinders nickacilled and LT500 dont (Read 1914 times)

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