Author Topic: True HRD PORTING vs Play Duner Porting (Read 1534 times)

QuadMan8 · « **on:** January 28, 2013, 06:05:11 pm »

Before I ask my question PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A BUILDER PISSING MATCH OR SLING MUD AT ANY BUILDER. A lot of us are starting to get tired of that. Thanks

My question is what are the differences between the refered to " HRD" porting vs Play dunner porting. What are the trade offs. What are the gains and sacrifices. About how much more HP and revs gained with the HRD and how much do you give up in rideability outside the dunes. Does either of them remove the exhaust bridge ( my term here may be incorrect-sorry). I heard removing this will shorten piston life. How much. How many tanks of fuel can one expect a piston to last.....general info like this..

Regardles who coined the phrase HRD, regardles if its built by Q, Or Halls, or Frank., or Tim, or Betty....you get the idea......I just want to know if I get a mostly all out duner port what will I gain and give up.

I am looking to hear from builders or those running either of these set ups from any builder.

I am looking to be educated here thanks.

Rider414 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2013, 07:10:35 pm »

Good question -

Mitch Keller · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2013, 07:35:32 pm »

HRD stands for "Hot Rod Duner" I was under the impression it was a larger bore 88mm (535cc and up), with aggressive midrange and strong top end porting for duning and some hill shooting.
I think every decent engine builder has some type of recipe for there type HRD porting.

nASSty Zilla · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2013, 07:52:45 pm »

Quote from: Mitch Keller on January 28, 2013, 07:35:32 pm

HRD stands for "Hot Rod Duner" I was under the impression it was a larger bore 88mm (535cc and up), with aggressive midrange and strong top end porting for duning and some hill shooting.
I think every decent engine builder has some type of recipe for there type HRD porting.

I'm right with Mitch on this one.

Dirtzilla · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2013, 08:11:58 pm »

HRD's usually also have boost piston ports, so i don't think builders will post exactly what their Hrd package consists of precisely.

Alkyzilla · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2013, 08:18:39 pm »

I agree some education is in order ..What exhaust bridge are you referring to?...did you say you bought your bike new in '88?.. is it still stock porting?... the guy you bought your pipe from is the HRD king, surely He has explained some of this stuff already to you..? Is it your own motor you are going to build? What kind of riding do you do? How many hrs do you expect to ride per year? Do you have a problem paying the high cost of race fuel? Do you have the ability without a video to R&R your own topend? What level of riding ability do you consider yourself? Are you planning suspension upgrades to compliment the HP increases? Have you ever considered buying a 4-Stroke to eliminate periodic maintenance issues associated with 2-Stroke engines?

GrkGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2013, 08:20:24 pm »

There are no gains on removing the intake exhaust bridge, one builder thought it was a good thing, but is not.
It actually will shorten the life of that motor, even some of the newer style hrd porting has some down falls. They take more out than they should and this will cause it to crack, even the (knife) that gets done to the bridge hurts it. But there are some builders that know this and then they will ask you, what do you want.

When you call a good motor builder (Jerry) he will ask you what you want, what do you plan on doing with it. Drag, hill shooter, dune, ect, ect.. then when you answere that, you will find out how long a piston will last. Of course the drag motor will have the shortest life, but its all what you want done. Best thing to do is get on the phone with your list of builders and start asking questions and tell them what you want. If you are happy with the way they talk to you and answer all your questions, then you just found your motor builder. Plus you want someone thats going to be around.
Nothing like having a builder that you cant get a hold of to answere your questions.

So call one and tell them you run the dunes, do a little drag racing up the hill, but you dont want a slacker. lol

Good luck

QuadMan8 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2013, 08:55:19 pm »

Alkyzilla, you ask some good questions. Yes I bought my zilla new in 88 and had a mild porting performed by CT racing in 1990. Runing race fuel is not a problem and I usually ride about 8 tanks of fuel a year. It sits in the winter. I play in the desert, 1/2 to 3/4 riding at the dunes. the rest is desert trails, washes (moab) or the high mountains of colorado or utah's paiute trails. I am R &R ed the top end many times. Its down to the frame now. I just got some upgraded shocks from wayne of PEP. My ability--I have been riding dirt bikes and Atv's for 40 years. Im 50 now so I like to think I am really fast----but I dont throw caution to the wind like I did 30 yrs ago.
I have a 4x4 trail machine and a raptor I just did hot piston, cam, valves but it is nothing compared to my CT zilla. I love the Zilla. Idont mind working on the zilla but I dont want to have to replace a piston every 4 tanks of fuel either.

I have not run my new pipe yet but i did talk to its builder but not in detail about my porting questions. I will talk to him and I hope to hear from other builders as well. Or I will call some if I dont hear an;y;th;ing hear.
I guess I am the type that likes to do some research and hear from many people using the products or at least "In the know" to better make a decission.

I would say I am leaning a dune/play porting----for all I know I already have that from CT. I just dont know what 20 years of inovation has brought the zilla on porting and what the trade offs are. I have been out of the performance shopping scene for 20 years so I am trying to get up to speed with options.

In short I am looking for all the power I can get with a powerband that is still very rideable, reliable, but leans to DUNE performance. I just didnt know if a HRD ( I am just using that term for optomized dune porting) gives you say 10 more hp but cant be trail ridden ....

sorry for the typos..im trying to do this from my phone

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2013, 09:09:32 pm »

You're probably not going to get any solid answers from that question, quadman.
For one, every builder has their own idea of what an "HRD" or play duner porting will be...one might decide that mid range and ok top end is where the power needs to be, one might think that high end is where the power needs to be on a dune port, with little emphasis on low and mid.
Some builders can't make an all-purpose port that lets you ride trails and hit the dunes without major deficiencies, some can.

If you want specific differences in how they run and what type of work is done to them, that's on a builder specific case.
If everyone did the same work, there wouldn't be a question of which builder was better, it would be a question of which is cheaper and has better customer service.
You'll have to ask each builder what their differences are, and odds are you won't get the technical answer you want because they're not going to divulge every aspect of the work.
They'll tell you how the engine will run, but they won't email you a port map of their cylinder.
Timing the ports to X degrees, triple porting the exhaust, opening the intake up more, raising compression, going to the last bore size, etc., is not everyone's recipe for an HRD.
Some builders might not even call it an HRD, or even offer something similar to that performance.
Granted, there's a few things that most every builder does to get more power, but they're rarely interchangeable in every scenario.
You can't go to X builder and get the intake ported, then go to Y builder and get the exhaust ported and expect them to run well together.
What you want to know is who can build an engine that does what YOU want it to do, unless you're wanting to compare porting from a specific builder.

Grkguy is a great example of why you can't ask a question like this and expect an unbiased answer.
He was being helpful, but he just couldn't help dropping the name of his favorite builder.

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2013, 09:40:33 pm »

QuadMan8 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2013, 09:44:11 pm »

Westtexas---You guys are probably right. I was hoping for cut and dry answers but i understand why that would be difficult. I guess one of the first steps is to see exactly what type of porting I have. How mild is mild ect..

And I dont mind people throwing out their favorite builder. Jerry is on my short list and very helpful. I just dont like the bashing of anyone, because it does not help answer my questions.

Are any of you. running a HRD motor as Q would describe it or a Halls equivilant. How do you like it and can you ride it outside the dune environment?

B_Fuss · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2013, 10:07:10 pm »

This weekend I rode a 500 that has the most incredible torque. Well since mine has eatin the transmission. We put my pipe on. Lost lots of torque but flat out screamed on top. The combo has to work together.

Alkyzilla · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2013, 10:28:03 pm »

These questions are all a great example of why I push for dyno info............... some don't agree, but I believe its offers up valid performance comparisons that the average user can digest.
If your an all out racer then you will of course disect and question all the info...................

Alkyzilla · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2013, 10:32:26 pm »

Bill, thats a very confusing post?

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2013, 10:51:12 pm »

You need to ask yourself, what truly is my riding style and what I want. To ask for your best combo, you will not get an un-biased answer here. You need to decide what your looking for. Halls is always a good bet, many of the old members have a lot of issue's with Q, not to say he isn't a good builder. 500fanatic, and IceRacer do great work to. There is a large list of builders here. Decide what you want, talk to some builders and decide from there.

Iceracer · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2013, 07:11:37 am »

Very good question.
For your application, the difference from your CT cylinder to a play port, there's a lot left on the table the ex port can be higher and wider, there's a point when too wide is too much and it will effect piston life. Diffrent bore sizes change this spec. Ex port height controlls the power range, Head and transfers control power curve. The transfers don't get a lot of attention from most "Vanilla" shops. So there's a good amount of re shaping and angling that can be done, just to bring it to what I consider a play type engine.
I do them multiple ways with more or less compression, port timing, and port volume depending on ride style.
To go to the next step is more time spent in those ares and the intake. Also welding the rears is a must at this point as with anytime you raise compression. Head work follows suit with the riding style as does exact port heights, you can build a engine to lug more or rev out in any version, but it becomes a trade off in one direction or the other, and you have to decide where your requirements are, or let the builder make his best guess.

Like pipster said in previous post. If you can find one and like the way it runs, see who built it and go from there.

Glamisrider · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2013, 07:53:13 am »

You want to know what to spend your money on before you spend it, right?

Best thing to do is ride with some guys who have set ups you think you might want and wath their bikes and ride them, then decide is this what I want to spend my money on.

I know a lot of guys who spent thousands of dollars thinking they got a bad ass bike (trinity, Duncan, CT, etc..) until they rode with other builders bikes

Alkyzilla · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2013, 08:33:06 am »

Quadman8....I have used hr meters for a few yrs to really gauge ride time. On my standard Hall dune port I'm able to freshen up with rings at 25-30 hrs...it will need a piston around 50 hrs. The top will be caving in and there probably will be cracks starting on the intake side. This might give an idea of the maintenance and cost side of one brand of motor, but doesn't help much trying to compare performance to what you have now.
Next trip out I'll watch hrs and tanks of fuel used.

Q2W · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2013, 08:46:18 am »

I have Tudor's dune porting. It's mild but much more aggressive then Trinity's. There are a few guys doing Q's HRD. I know for a fact, 500fanatic does the HRD but has added his own touch to it. He generally keeps the bridge intact but removing it isn't a death sentence to your motor. A friend i ride with has the no bridge HRD porting and is still on the same piston since he had it done back in 2005. Yea, the motor needs to be freshen up because it does have visible wear but it's still a runner. I've raced guys with HRD porting a bunch. one with a v1 Q pipe (without bridge) and one with an AAEN pipe (with bridge) and consistently beat them both although the v1 Qpipe guy was always a close race. Maybe the modded Q pipe is giving me the edge? i dunno. We all run the same carb and reeds.

I've been wanting to go back through my motor. Maybe get some really aggressive porting done. But i'm a bit reluctant being that my bike has been extremely reliable.

Mitch Keller · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2013, 09:08:44 am »

Matt Shearers is also porting LT500 jugs now, swears he is getting 70 hp and a full range powerband, like to hear more about his work on the site.
The more builders the better

Q2W · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2013, 09:25:52 am »

Quote from: Mitch Keller on January 29, 2013, 09:08:44 am

Matt Shearers is also porting LT500 jugs now, swears he is getting 70 hp and a full range powerband, like to hear more about his work.

I talked to him about it a little when i got my pipe from him. Thinking i may have him do something radical.

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2013, 05:02:47 pm »

I do radical stuff every day.

Yoyodyne1 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2013, 06:36:24 pm »

I have Stage 14 porting and I'm still getting beat,,,,someone help!

nASSty Zilla · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2013, 09:20:09 pm »

Quote from: Yoyodyne1 on January 29, 2013, 06:36:24 pm

I have Stage 14 porting and I'm still getting beat,,,,someone help!

LOL stop racing banshees!

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2013, 12:11:56 am »

Quote from: Yoyodyne1 on January 29, 2013, 06:36:24 pm

I have Stage 14 porting and I'm still getting beat,,,,someone help!

I'm guessing you mean Trinity Stage 4?

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Author Topic: True HRD PORTING vs Play Duner Porting (Read 1534 times)

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