Author Topic: Where do I start with this front end? (Read 1598 times)

Steve Jagger · « **on:** June 07, 2016, 01:35:04 pm »

Hi, I'm trying to make this old 86 rideable again for the time being, until I have the time and money to do a restore. Anyways, the front end is REALLY out of whack, and was wondering where to begin, or the steps I should be taking. Thanks, heres a 5 sec video, cuz cant get pics to work.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2016, 10:52:32 am »

Also, what setting should my shocks be at? I had some bad ones, so I got some used ones and theyre set in the middle notch, and the old ones were turned all the way to the tightest.

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2016, 11:21:21 am »

The shock settings depend on your weight and type of riding. you want them to feel comfortable and not bottom out when hitting a bump of a jump. For the front end it looks as though the shocks could be too long. Since it is an 86 the front shocks are supposed to be shorter then the 87+ bikes. I would make sure that you have the right shocks, as long as nothing is obviously bent.

92lt250wannabe · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2016, 08:27:21 pm »

They both look cambered positively the same. Not good. Like Dutch said your shocks may be too long. The tires will usually positively camber like that if the shocks are too long or set really stiff. Especially if you do not have adjustable ball joints on the top. And atock a arms do not have adjustable ball joints. Take a shock off and measure it from the center of the eye on top to the center on bottom. Post what you come up with

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2016, 09:16:03 pm »

After taking everything apart again, i replaced all tie rod ends and ball joints on the front end. I did some reading, so i did the bump steer mod, and grinded off my a arm doohickeys, put 3 1/8 inch washers on, and after a long process, finally found out that ACE hardware had longer 14 mm by 1.5 bolts, in case anyone has a hard time finding them. The washers I had to get were huge, as they ran out at 20 mm, and I think it takes 21 or 22 to do this. So had to go standard size. Anyways it looks better, I believe 3 1/8 inch washers equals about .36 inches?
So now i have my beer, and a few lights on at midnight here in PA, only to sit here and contemplate adjusting tie rods.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2016, 09:57:27 pm »

I spose it worked.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2016, 10:18:15 pm »

Oh yeah, it turned out my new stock shocks were correct, matched up with the old ones, think theyre 12 and 3/4 inches

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2016, 09:32:15 am »

That sounds about right. I believe its 12.5 from eye to eye but not 100% on that. I doubt anything is bent as you have equal camber on both sides. How is it looking after all that work?

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2016, 02:43:14 pm »

Looks a lot better.

Now I gotta figure out if this chain should be riding on the slider this much.

Doesnt it seem kind of binded? Its a brand new slider, and its diggin in a lot already.

92lt250wannabe · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2016, 09:04:18 pm »

The chain should move I think about 1/2" total play. Might be slightly more don't know the exact number off hand.. When you sit on the bike it will change how the chain rides on the slider.

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2016, 08:50:08 am »

It might just be me but it looks like your ride height is way high. But what 92LT said is correct when you sit on the bike your weight should further correct the front end camber as well as make the rear end squat making the chain align better. If it doesn't correct it enough. you may want to look into getting your rear shock sprung for your weight. the fronts will function as they are until you get tired of them and want an after market solution. but you don't want that chain digging into your swing-arm.

Here are two shots of how mine sits just to give you an idea of why I think your ride height is pretty high. The in grass picture had a blown rear shock while the sand one it was rebuilt.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2016, 04:54:13 pm »

I have actually wondered the same thing. This bike makes my friends' warrior look like a tonka toy. I will take some more pictures of it tomorrow to give you a better look. It seems to handle really well now with all the changes.

Q2W · « **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2016, 06:22:44 am »

Quote from: 92lt250wannabe on June 10, 2016, 09:04:18 pm

The chain should move I think about 1/2" total play. Might be slightly more don't know the exact number off hand.. When you sit on the bike it will change how the chain rides on the slider.

I always set mine to 1" total play. 1/2" up and down.

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2016, 09:23:23 am »

something about the angle of that swingarm just doesn't look right. maybe a shot of how that rear shock is mounted up would help. Also where are these set for the ride height? and what length is that rear shock?

Just throws me off because it looks almost like your suspension, a-arms and rear swinger, are stretched out.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2016, 02:01:47 pm »

Well, now you have me convinced that the rear shock is wrong and man is this getting discouraging. So I think I may have figured out how to do pictures.
https://imageshack.com/i/plLWaqNfj
That one should just be a picture of the front, which i spent forever sanding down the plastics.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2016, 02:24:33 pm »

Well, that didnt work like I thought it would, oh well I will roll with it. This is a pic of the back
https://imageshack.com/i/poOblS7Xj

This is where its all wrong, the shocks hose does not run correctly because the end on the tank isnt bent at a 45 like on an 86, the 91 and 92s have this 90 degree type of tank come to find out. Also there was an adjuster there for the gas, that wouldnt twist, and the plastic knob crumbled in my hand.
https://imageshack.com/i/pln4okVAj
https://imageshack.com/i/poquioVlj

Tried to get the shock and how much its compressed with no weight on it.
https://imageshack.com/i/pmMNHBTCj

The chain with me off of it.
https://imageshack.com/i/pnKraW0cj

The chain with my 180 lbs on it.
https://imageshack.com/i/poBFjNLwj

After looking at suzuki parts house and their different diagrams of the shocks from different years, (if its even a suzuki shock), I have come to believe the tank may be from a 91-92, and the shock from an 87-90.

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2016, 03:46:13 pm »

No need to get discouraged, we can get it all figured out

Even with your weight on it that chain angle still doesn't look right. Its better, but still looks as though it will wear through that slider.

From a quick google the stock 86 shock should be 15". someone will correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm also fairly certain that its the same length as the newer LTs.

So many different parts get put on these bikes in an attempt to get them in one piece it can be a crap shoot trying to figure out what has been done to them. If it'd help I can take some measurements and pictures of my bike tomorrow. Just let me know.

Q2W will also be able to help out. Hell, I could also be way off base.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2016, 04:25:54 pm »

Thanks for all of your help, I am just tryin to do it right, and want to get it all together correctly before I make it fancy like everyone else whose is on here. Its a project, and knew it when I bought it for 600 bucks, since then Ive put in a ton of money and time into it, and I still gotta strip it when its done to paint.
The two things that keep me going on a tight budget are the the "Save the two strokes" and the " Bought another one after stupidly selling it" posts, haha.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2016, 01:52:43 pm »

So I finally got my tape measure back, and it looks to be about 16 inches from the middle of the 2 bolts on the shock.
I take it there isnt any way to adjust shock length or anything.

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2016, 08:41:28 am »

Not really to adjust the overall length of the shock but there is a way to adjust the resting tension on the spring. There are two thin nuts on the shock that you can loosen. I believe on the picture of your rear shock they were on the bottom. you can loosen these to a point where it lowers the resting height of the bike. Just loosen the 1 not against the spring first then the other and make sure to tighten the two nuts against eachother when you find a good height.

These nuts have "teeth" on the sides and normally a special tool is needed. I usually use a dead blow hammer and an old screw driver which works as long as their not too tight.

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2016, 08:46:31 am »

http://www.atvrider.com/back-to-basics-suspension-setup-technique

Here is a decent how to.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #21 on:** June 16, 2016, 05:51:54 pm »

Ok, so I adjusted the shock all the way to where it was right on the verge of the spring rattling around, and went from there. It was about correct in terms of sag before I started, probably about an inch or so. With it all the way uncompressed it had around 4 inches, which I made a video of it bouncing.

After that, I moved it to about an inch and a half of sag. When I get on it, it seems a little less binded on the chain slider, hopefully that should be ok?

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2016, 08:31:26 am »

Definitely seems better from the video. Is the chain angle looking better from the side? If you fully compress the shock then let go of the grab bar does it jump up or does it slowly return?

On a side note: if you ever need them, I have a pair of stock front shocks from an 85-86 LT sitting in my garage that I would let go super cheep.

Steve Jagger · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2016, 10:23:03 am »

Yep, the chain angle looks a little better, and the shock comes back up slowly, not all bouncy like that.
So far I dont think I need shocks, but I have only ridden it a little around the yard. I do think I need a thumb throttle though, the twist is a little scary for me, lol. Also if you or anyone has a front master cylinder, I tried to use one from an old yamaha street bike I had layin around, and its not working very well. Thanks

Dutch_Rutter · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2016, 10:56:06 am »

Ok good, If it was bouncy its a sign that your rear shock needs a rebuild.

I might have a stock front break master cylinder laying around. I'll check. If you cant find a thumb throttle you can always use one from a Honda 400ex, I ended up getting a billet setup for the 400ex and its worked great. Also a front master cylinder from an LTZ400 will work for your bike. If I remember right, you need to use the bolt from the LTZ to hold the brake line on, and the LTZ lever.

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Author Topic: Where do I start with this front end? (Read 1598 times)

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