Author Topic: how get past the ethanol in pump gas (Read 1473 times)

5DollarFootLong · « **on:** May 25, 2013, 02:12:23 pm »

Just about every gas station has a percentage mix .of ethanol

Deebo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:22:03 pm »

Don't buy pump gas?

Seriously.. There are some stations that sell ethanol free low octane. but the hard part is finding them. You can buy av gas if you have a small air port near you.

El Diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:22:26 pm »

Buy race fuel.

Deebo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:23:31 pm »

Quote from: El Diablo on May 25, 2013, 02:22:26 pm

Buy race fuel.

Or what he said ^

5DollarFootLong · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:52:04 pm »

Is all ready ran two gallons on 93 pump gas through it hope I did not damage it

5DollarFootLong · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:54:34 pm »

So run 110 octane will that be ok to run and do I have to re jet the carb to run it

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2013, 03:03:08 pm »

Having excess octane is safe and won't cause problems with jetting, not having enough octane or unknown quantities of ethanol mixed in is not safe and jetting can be impossible to fine tune.
Your choices are AvGas, race fuel, or set your quad up to run straight alcohol or E85 (it always has the same amount of ethanol).
It is still possible to find a gas station that sells straight gasoline, and it'll be more common to find it in the months and years to come since the corn/ethanol mandate is running out of steam.
I recommend AvGas at a minimum (100 octane) or race fuel (100 octane or above), especially if you haven't fixed the cylinder head geometry.
Running pump gas in a zilla is pretty much a sure-fire way to ruin it.
When you run higher octane fuel that is always the same consistency, you can jet it more reliably...so if you're doing ok with pump gas then you can probably lean it out a little when you switch to race fuel.

5DollarFootLong · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2013, 03:09:57 pm »

I am running 32.1 mix I know a gas station that sells 110 octane and says it contains lead??

Buckeye513 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2013, 04:09:08 pm »

Lead is fine

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2013, 04:34:20 pm »

Yep, won't harm your engine at all (cars ran on leaded fuel for decades before they mandated only unleaded fuels on highways) so long as you're not driving it on a public highway (or any road for that matter) there's nothing illegal about it.
AvGas has lead in it, as well as several racing fuels on the market.
Lead is the cheapest way to increase octane in gasoline, so think of it as a plus.

JayTater · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2013, 05:08:09 pm »

Renegade 110 is a good, non oxygenated leaded fuel. Usually costs less than VP fuels as well. A lot of the local bike shops around Tampa switched from VP to renegade fuels because of cost.

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2013, 03:50:14 am »

In Michigan, you need to make sure the gas station onlys keeps race fuel in the tank... Not kerosene in the winter, and back to race fuel in the summer. It cost me a $20,000 race motor.

JayTater · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2013, 05:54:49 am »

Never pull race fuel from an underground tank in Fl. They ALL have water in them, regardless of whether it contains ethanol or not.

5DollarFootLong · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2013, 09:17:34 am »

Thanks for all the help

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2013, 07:04:11 pm »

lucas oil products makes an additive that gets rid of the ethanol. its in a green bottle. looks like there fuel injector additive. never tried it but parts store sells it. dont see how it works, may be snake oil..

JayTater · « **Reply #15 on:** May 26, 2013, 07:18:56 pm »

Is it safe to say that ANY additives to your fuel affect the true octane rating? There's always a side effect. Eth is in the fuel to increase the octane, so if its "eliminated" somehow, octane goes down as well. What is the octane rating of the treatment, is it stable in premix?

QuadMan8 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2013, 10:19:50 pm »

Not sure if TESORO gas stations are nation wide but here many of them carry a mid grade clear fuel...clear is their name/designation for NON-ethanol fuel. I mix 2 gallons of mid non ethanol to 3 gallons 111 octane race gas. works well.

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2013, 10:33:19 pm »

NOS makes an octane booster that incorporates nitromethane for actual, honest HP increases (tiny increases, but real).

Don't try removing the ethanol, it won't work.
You'll wind up with low octane or some weird concoction that won't burn right...or no change in the fuel at all other than the extra cost of the additive that's not doing a damn thing but being a filler.
If you mix something in that's supposed to neutralize the ethanol's effects, you need to know the exact amount of ethanol in the fuel.
That brings you right back around to this point:
There's nothing wrong with ethanol in fuel!
It's the AMOUNT of ethanol that's in there...if it was set at a precise mix, then there wouldn't be a problem.
When you buy pump gas with ethanol, you don't know how much is in there and you don't know how to jet accordingly (ethanol mixes change the stoichiometric ratio).
Ethanol by itself is great for racing and will produce more power than gasoline will.
It also needs somewhere around a 9:1 ratio to burn correctly, which means it'll lean out your carb and melt a piston if you don't re-jet.
Buying pump gas is a lot like getting a jug of premix from a dirtbiker and dumping it straight in your tank without asking what the premix ratio is...except that if you ask the gas station how much ethanol is in there they won't be able to tell you.

JayTater · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2013, 05:32:40 am »

Filling stations nowadays all have Veeder-Root tank monitoring systems. If you were so inclined, you can request a printout from the monitor. It only takes 15 seconds for the computer to print it. Problem is that they only give temperature, and water level in the tanks. I've seen some tickets that show 10-13" of water in the base of the tank.TThat's like 300-500 GALLONS of water, just sitting on there with the gas. Stay away from pump gas for your bikes, you're begging for problems...

Unfortunately, as of about 6 years ago, the tank probes were not set up to distinguish gas/eth percentage.

LT250RWV · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2013, 06:56:31 am »

Star Tron is a remove of ethanol.

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #20 on:** May 28, 2013, 05:43:39 pm »

Like Tex said "ethanol in the fuel will not hurt your engine if you are jetted for it" and if the octane rating is high enough for your engine.

In the Phoenix area I have never seen more than 15% ethanol in the fuel unless it is e-85. 15% ethanol requires the jetting to be about 5% richer. 5% is equal to 1 to 2 main jets sizes.

E-85 needs to be about 30% richer on every fuel circuit including the fuel flow from the tank and into the float bowl. E-85 can promote corrosion in the carburetor and inside the engine.

MD2smoker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 28, 2013, 06:14:19 pm »

Ok soo.. I gave up on the idea of running any additives or mixes of fuels in my zilla cause it dosent seem to be worth the hassles of rejetting, detonation and possible engine damage in my 500. However, i have been using the lucas ethanol treatment/ stabilizer in all my 4 pokes for about 2 1/2 years now. All these quads, lawnmowers, etc. run great and the carbs look sqeeky clean when i open them up. Never rejetted or anything.
Should i be worried about the 93 pump/ lucas mix in my 4 strokes? The highest performing of all these engines is my stock compression yfz450. Hardly a rocketship.

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #22 on:** May 28, 2013, 08:56:05 pm »

Most all 4-strokes on the market can be run on regular pump gas.
Fuel injected quads are less sensitive to the effects of ethanol than carbed quads, though it really just depends on the FI unit's programming.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you're seeing high engine temps and reduced performance.

Our zillas are different because they're quite sensitive to jetting and detonation.
A small change in jetting has a big effect on a 2-stroke, and the squish band on the 500's isn't optimal.
Suzuki had a problem with detonation from the beginning, that's where some of the differences between the 87 and 88+ 500's came from...they were trying to limit or eliminate damage caused by detonation (extra head stud, retarded timing in the CDI, etc.)

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2013, 07:39:47 am »

ok so the lucas oil product doesnt actually get rid of the ethanol. it conditions the ethanol blended fuel and helps against all the side effects of having ethanol in the fuel. gumming up and clogging of injectors, jets, lines, pumps ect..

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/LUC0/10576.oap?ck=Search_ethanol+treatment_-1_-1&keyword=ethanol+treatment

WestTexasKing · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2013, 12:33:10 pm »

Stratification and moisture retention are a problem with ethanol too.

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Author Topic: how get past the ethanol in pump gas (Read 1473 times)

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