+-

Author Topic: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs  (Read 1239 times)

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« on: July 15, 2016, 09:33:21 am »
I am making some lightweight oversize carb bowls.
They fit PWK carbs 33+ and should also fit PJ carbs.
They will be made from chemical resistant material. Use plastic screws and chemical resistant fittings.
These bowls will allow access to both pilot and main jet without removal of bowl.
Bowls will be white, screws are white. Drain plug is black. Hose fittings are clear or black.
Projected weight should be under 3oz, around 2.9x oz as shown below (with hardware and fittings).
To give an idea of weight and price, a chariot billet bowl weighs 8.5oz and cost $96.

Price for just a bowl with bolts is $80 shipped. $155/pair
Drilled and tapped for overflow fitting, $85 shipped. $160/pair
Drilled and tapped for overflow and powerjet fittings, $88 shipped. $165/pair
Drilled and tapped for overflow and 2 powerjet fittings, $90 shipped. $170/pair
Overflow fitting can be 1/16" hose (black) or 1/8" hose (clear)
Powerjet fitting can be 1/8" hose (clear) or 1/4" hose (black)

3d model below to give an idea of design and placement of fittings.
Model is estimated to weigh 2.95oz with 1/16" overflow fitting and twin 1/4" powerjet fittings.
This weekend, I will get estimated weighs for the other configurations.




Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Offline MotorGeek - Jerry Hall

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pro Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 858
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 12:01:29 pm »
Why not use metal screws and metal for the bowl and fittings.  I do not think that the plastic screws will provide enough clamping force to make the float bowl seal,or guys will be breaking them expecting to take the torque of a metal screw.

I have had problems in the past with plastic fittings breaking when the hoses are removed or reinstalled after the fuel and overflow lines get old and hard.

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 12:27:44 pm »
If you can't see the reason behind not using metal for those parts, it isn't worth explaining. Oh wait, I already told the reason.

Offline Q2W

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Forum Moderator
  • Elite Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 1386
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: NWA
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 12:42:31 pm »
Are you 3d printing the bowls?

And what about o-rings/seals?

Model looks great.

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 12:46:51 pm »
No they will not be made from 3d printer. They will be machined from a billet piece of material.
I couldn't find an o-ring that would work without having some custom made. I am going to make some from paper gasket.

I only have 10 bowls for sale. I am making 12 and keeping a pair for me. The company I got my billet piece from me required a minimum price per line order for each piece of billet material and the price point came out to 12 for the adapter piece and 10 for the bowl.
Plus machining 12 of the same piece is cheaper per a piece than just 2.

Offline Skeans1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Weekend Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Rainier, Or
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 08:52:21 pm »
No they will not be made from 3d printer. They will be machined from a billet piece of material.
I couldn't find an o-ring that would work without having some custom made. I am going to make some from paper gasket.

I only have 10 bowls for sale. I am making 12 and keeping a pair for me. The company I got my billet piece from me required a minimum price per line order for each piece of billet material and the price point came out to 12 for the adapter piece and 10 for the bowl.
Plus machining 12 of the same piece is cheaper per a piece than just 2.

Why not get some o ring cord and make your own o ring or cut a groove into the bowl and place the round ring in grease to hold its position?

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 06:00:17 am »
I don't have the tools to make orings. And so far, to have them made isn't cheap. I am still looking into this though.

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 06:18:33 am »
This bowl with 1/8" barb fittings is estimated to weigh 2.83 oz. Removing the fittings for the PJs does not really effect weight as the material that is removed in the bowl weighs roughly the same as the fittings.

With no PJ and only the overflow, estimated weight is 2.82 oz.

Height is 2"




Offline Skeans1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Weekend Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Rainier, Or
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 03:08:33 pm »
O ring cord cut at an angle and super glue I do it in hydraulics

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 03:24:08 pm »
I will look into that.

Offline MotorGeek - Jerry Hall

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pro Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 858
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 09:06:25 pm »
If you can't see the reason behind not using metal for those parts, it isn't worth explaining. Oh wait, I already told the reason.


I am not tying to shoot down your project, I am just trying to possibly save you from having some irate customers when the screws may not provide enough clamping force to seal the float bowl or they break the screws when they install the bowl. 

Do you think Quadzilla owners will be able to see a difference in acceleration due to saving a few ounces on a float bowl when they are almost 390 lbs. without a rider?

I have not found a need for the large capacity bowls on alcohol when the whole fuel system is set up correctly for the power the engine is making.

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2016, 04:48:46 am »
You again don't see it. These are not for the average quad. These are for those that have already shaved a lot of weight off there quad.
These are not for a 390lb zilla, these are for the sub 300lb hybrids and drag quads.
I know the nylon screws will provide enough clamping force to seal.

Offline Skeans1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Weekend Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Rainier, Or
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 05:43:50 am »
You again don't see it. These are not for the average quad. These are for those that have already shaved a lot of weight off there quad.
These are not for a 390lb zilla, these are for the sub 300lb hybrids and drag quads.
I know the nylon screws will provide enough clamping force to seal.
With any seal you use you need a screw that'll slightly pull up on them and I'll bet you that the plastic screw will strip the first go around, think of most rigs they use them on interiors or fender wells as a one thing use because any pressure they strip.

Offline LTZilla

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 520
  • Gender: Female
  • I like turtles
  • Location: On your lap
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2016, 06:09:23 pm »
ZF

Nice rendering on the bowl.  Just a few questions.

Are these setup to only run on PWK carbs?

What is the function for the top nipple?  Sorry I'm a bit slow.

Have you thought of making it out of one piece instead of using an adapter plate?

Just wondering...

Keep generating ideas.

LT

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2016, 06:25:39 am »
ZF

Nice rendering on the bowl.  Just a few questions.

Are these setup to only run on PWK carbs? - Currently these will only bolt up to a PWK carb and some PJ carbs to my knowledge. I don't have a TM carb to check bolt pattern and fitment. If I could find a TM carb, I could design up an adapter plate that matches the bowl to the TM carb.

What is the function for the top nipple?  Sorry I'm a bit slow. Top nipple is the overflow fitting.

Have you thought of making it out of one piece instead of using an adapter plate? I have thought about this, but really can't. Many reasons, one being access to the 4 bolts to tighten them down between the carb and plate. Second is machining, will be hard to machine the bowl to size when you have a small limited access. If casting/injection molded, this could work, but not for machining.

Just wondering...

Keep generating ideas.

LT

Offline Skeans1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Weekend Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Rainier, Or
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2016, 09:00:09 am »
ZF

Nice rendering on the bowl.  Just a few questions.

Are these setup to only run on PWK carbs? - Currently these will only bolt up to a PWK carb and some PJ carbs to my knowledge. I don't have a TM carb to check bolt pattern and fitment. If I could find a TM carb, I could design up an adapter plate that matches the bowl to the TM carb.

What is the function for the top nipple?  Sorry I'm a bit slow. Top nipple is the overflow fitting.

Have you thought of making it out of one piece instead of using an adapter plate? I have thought about this, but really can't. Many reasons, one being access to the 4 bolts to tighten them down between the carb and plate. Second is machining, will be hard to machine the bowl to size when you have a small limited access. If casting/injection molded, this could work, but not for machining.

Just wondering...

Keep generating ideas.

LT

TM floats are built into the bowls if I remember correctly. On your top nipple why not have it as an inlet like the cp cast bowls of a 250r?

Offline Glamisrider

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Forum Moderator
  • Pro Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 860
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 10:02:21 am »
If your looking for a large assortment of non traditional orings try    http://oringsandthings.com/

If you know what you need/want you can get them pretty cheap at www.mcmastercarr.com

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2016, 10:08:06 am »
By inlet, do you mean an inlet for gas?

As for the o-ring, custom o-rings from mcmaster are $9, so that is another $20 for a bowl.

Offline Skeans1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Weekend Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Rainier, Or
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2016, 12:30:12 pm »
By inlet, do you mean an inlet for gas?

As for the o-ring, custom o-rings from mcmaster are $9, so that is another $20 for a bowl.

Yes my cp bowl on my 250r puma has two inlets on it with three floats. Once you figure out the size and length you need try a place called seal source in Portland Oregon all they do is seals, o rings, pistons, and what not I go in there a decent amount for putting together kits for hydraulic cylinders and motors.

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2016, 09:22:35 am »
no need for extra inlet for fuel. adding another inlet and float would jump cost up a lot.

i ran an oversize bowl on my old setup, it helped with the one issue i had, i would start to run the bowl dry on long WOT pulls. making the bowl larger fixed this issue. running the bowl dry causes it to run lean and can burn the engine down.

Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2016, 09:46:20 am »
Ok, did some updating to the design.

Added a tube for the overflow to make sure fuel didn't go out there unless it was actually over filling.

Found a company that can make the o-rings for cheap, so added o-rings to both the bowl/adapter mate and adapter/carb mate.
New pictures.




Offline ZillaFreak

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Range Rover
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Lightweight Oversize bowls for PWK carbs
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2016, 05:45:46 am »
Prototype was printed





 

+- Suzuki Quadracer HQ Store Zone

http://www.suzukiquadracerhq.com/index.php?action=store