Suzuki Quadracer HQ
Suzuki Quadracer HQ Discussion => Suzuki Quadracer HQ - General Discussion => Topic started by: Deebo on May 31, 2014, 03:17:40 pm
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Haha. Back flips. That's funny. And no... none lately. How bout you? How you been?
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how u ben deebo u done any back flips lately
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You may need a torque wrench I think them drain bolts tork at 426lb
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New bowl assembly has arrived from Sudco. It's my weekend off, so I'll be in the garage all day.
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labor of love. lol.
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I'm back!!
Between a new baby in the house another on the way and work, I've finally got time to do some work on the quad. Still seems rich at WOT. Was dropping main jets one size at a time and my carb bowl drain stripped out.
I can't win for losing!!
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Bump for March!! It's warming up MI people!!
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Matt. What's going on.
HF trip in April you ready. 13 to 17th
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Been running non resistor plugs with the resistor cap. Thanks for the heads up though... Sucks what happened to your motor!! Been there, done that
Oh the fun of fixing, riding, breaking,... on and on. Oh well, got to spend my money somewhere.... right!?!
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Been running non resistor plugs with the resistor cap. Thanks for the heads up though... Sucks what happened to your motor!! Been there, done that
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Wow, your persistent in trying to fix your quad. I noticed that you have a 5k resistor cap, so you are running a NON Resistor plug like the B8ES then right? Not a Resistor plug like the BR8ES plug?
I'm sure you've read/heard that you want one resistor on the ignition circuit... Resistor Plug OR Resistor Cap, not both. Still seems strange that 1-3 have the issue while 4-5 run fine.
Good luck.
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Well.... she's a garage ornament. Haven't rode it since early spring last year. Time to get to work? I've got a new aftermarket ladder style swinger to install, just need to get a new chain. I honestly can't remember how she ran last time out. Must have not been too bad or I would have remembered!
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Yea, Deebo W.T.H.?
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Well?
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Read all the way through this thread, lot's of good info.
Have me in suspense as to the outcome ?
Any progress ?
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Ride for a couple hours today. It doesn't do it when your wind out 4th and 5th gear. Only 1-3
I still say the main jet is too rich for your set up. The big question is why is it rich when other guys with a similar engine package use the same or larger jets???
Air filters, pipes and the type of fuel have the largest influence on the main jet size.
Change the pipe and silencer and take it for a test ride. Mix up some fresh NEW fuel and take it for a test ride. If it still misfires at the higher RPM in the lower gears lean it down 2 to 3 jet sizes and take it for a quick test ride. If it has a stock 87 reed valve and petals, it will often misfire at 7600 RPM with some porting schemes and exhaust systems.
Air filter oil as well as the age of filters especially foam filters can have a major influence on main jet size. Removing the air filter for a test run is not always a valid test for testing the restriction of the air filter. I done a lot of flow bench testing and many times an air box/intake system will flow more air with an air filter than without any filter. I have seen engines run richer on the dyno without a filter than with a filter. Unfortunately a lot of stuff that happens in an engine does not seem to fit what common sense dictates.
Different silencers can change the back pressure slightly, making the engine need a smaller main jet without affecting the power.
The inside of the stinger and muffler accumulates a very thin layer of carbon as the exhaust system accumulates miles on it. Over time this layer of carbon WILL AFFECT the exhaust flow and back pressure at the exhaust port. I have seen exhaust systems with less than 50 hours accumulate enough carbon inside the stinger to cause the engine to act very rich at wide open throttle while driving the engine into detonation with a rich misfire.
One of the most critical welds on the whole exhaust system is at the junction of the stinger and tail cone. There should not be ANY weld boogers protruding into the flow path where the flow area is at a minimum. One of the most critical areas of flow is at the junction of the stinger and tail cone. There should not be any mismatches in diameters as the flow goes from the tail cone to the stinger. There should not be any sudden changes in direction as the flow goes from the tail cone into the singer. These are areas that are overlooked and special attention must be given during the manufacturing of an exhaust system.
The above mentioned areas must be inspected and corrected especially if you are having trouble with piston seizures and or holes being burned in the top of your pistons or jetting being very temperamental. I have seen hundreds of engines with recurring piston overheating problems because the pipe manufacture was sloppy and in a hurry when making/designing/welding this critical junction of the stinger and tail cone.
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How You been Nate??
I still have a light mounted. I'll give it a try. Thanks
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Hello Deebo.
I have had a similar situation but discovered that when I turned the headlight switch on, my problems went away. If you still have a light mounted and a stock switch, turn it on next time you ride. I would be surprised if we have the same problem but you never know! It is an easy test to try.
Nate
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Ride for a couple hours today. It doesn't do it when your wind out 4th and 5th gear. Only 1-3
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Well....
Brand new slide and brand new needle valve. Still happening. Seems like it cuts out a lot less now though, and it only affect WOT. I'm gonna ride it til the wheels fall off
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Well, Deebo..?
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And on your 44 you don't run the UFO slide piece do you? I know it allows a lot smaller jetting and better throttle response from the few people I know that use it.
Sorry I missed this Buckeye, not I don't run a UFO they're crap and don't make a difference.
JH has ran some test on them and the only thing they seem to do is shrink you wallet.
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Thanks Bret and that's what I was gonna do bump it to a 420 see how she pulls and plug reeds then adjust either main or needle from there. I never spent the time tuning my main because I just ran it rich for trails to be safe.
And on your 44 you don't run the UFO slide piece do you? I know it allows a lot smaller jetting and better throttle response from the few people I know that use it.
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Now I have to take it out to our property and do some plug chops. Thinking the 400 and 2nd clip position may be a little lean and I'd rather lose a little bit of power to protect my top end.
If you think it's lean on the mid circuit then change the needle. If not try a 420 main in there without changing the needle.
I know they say mains only affect 3/4-WFO but I've changed my main and it made a difference from off the pilot all the way to full throttle. Of course I'm in the 600+ range on a VM44 so I'm not sure if that has something to do with it or not. But from what I've seen a main change will affect clip tuning as well.
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Quad is next. Gotta get this tracker sorted out first. It's always something.
May start with jetting again... I'll update.
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It's all in my build thread except jetting but my setup is 9" k&n with outerwears no airbox 40mm tm38 mikuni (had it bore gauged and MHR didn't bore it all the way to 41.5) v2 reeds 88 small reed top end touch up port job if that, 87.5mm bore rechambered head squish corrected Q v1 pipe. Was running a 42.5 pilot and a 450 main needle clip 1st position. Dropped the main to a 400 and the needle clip to the second position. Now I have to take it out to our property and do some plug chops. Thinking the 400 and 2nd clip position may be a little lean and I'd rather lose a little bit of power to protect my top end.
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What was your main before? Aribox lid on? What filter? (maybe you have this info elsewhere)
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Well my problem was definitely jetting dropped down to a 400 main second clip position on the needle and for the first time since my rebuild I had power from 3/4 throttle to wide open... Holy **** this bike moves like crazy now!!! I got off and my hands were shaking from the adrenaline!!!
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Just saying its a common denominator.
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You know one thing Matt's bike and my bike have in common... MHR
Oh no you di int!!! lol S~
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You know one thing Matt's bike and my bike have in common... MHR
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well Matt, anything... leaves are gonna be falling soon. better get that bike fixed.
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I wonder if pulling my outerwears off my k&n would help.
I pulled the outerwear off my UNI. No difference.
I'm using a new spark arrestor, genuine mikuni jets, pulled the pipe and cleaned the small amount of build up in it, same air filter w/ same oil (tried with and without outerwear), and been using the same fuel for the last 3 or so years. Only thing I haven't changed are the reeds, which I might as well swap out at this point.
If the reed change does not fix the problem. Change the spark arrestor to a straight through type of muffler. The new spark arrestor may be slightly more restrictive. A slight increase in restriction will often require a smaller main jet to stop the misfire at 3/4 to full throttle just before it is usually time to shift.
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I wonder if pulling my outerwears off my k&n would help.
I pulled the outerwear off my UNI. No difference.
I'm using a new spark arrestor, genuine mikuni jets, pulled the pipe and cleaned the small amount of build up in it, same air filter w/ same oil (tried with and without outerwear), and been using the same fuel for the last 3 or so years. Only thing I haven't changed are the reeds, which I might as well swap out at this point.
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I wonder if pulling my outerwears off my k&n would help.
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Still ran like crap with stocker on. I tried pwk 38 and now Tm 38
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Brian wasn't 10 months ago roughly when you switched to the tm38 mikuni?
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Matt my 250 has done same thing for around 10 months. Ive chased everything like you have. New primary coil new pick up. Different cdi different coil. Checked all connections. Checked harness. But mine doesnt run right first threw 3rd. I have 400 main in. But I can pull a 450 clean threw 4 th threw 6th. But will not pull it till 4th.. but mine has flashes were it runs right for a pull or to then back to crap. Im pulling motor apart this weekend im going threw everything. If I figure mine out il let you know asap.
This problem is not a mechanical problem, It is a rich condition. You need to investigate WHY it is rich if the jetting is the same as when it use to run good. If you have recently changed reed petals, you may have reed petals that are too thin and are "floating" and producing rich like symptoms. Set the spark plug gap to about .020" If the spark plug gap or stiffer reed petals does not fix the problem, I think that you will find the problem in the list below. The symptoms act like a carburetor that is about 2 to 4 main jet sizes too rich.
1. The main jet you are using may not be the same jet that you used when it ran good. Aftermarket main jets are often miss-marked.
2. Spark arrestor is partially plugged.
3. The inside of the stinger has accumulated enough carbon to change the pipe restriction. An over-restricted pipe will make the engine run rich on the main jet and will need a smaller main jet.
4. Different air filter oils will often require a different main jet.
5. Different brands of fuel will change the optimum main jet size. It is not uncommon for Race gasoline or AV gas to need 1 to 3 main jet leaner than premium pump gas.
6. Temperature affects the main jet size. The main jet will need to be approximately 1 main jet leaner for about every 15 deg increase in intake temperature.
7. A 40% increase in humidity will require about 1 main jet leaner.
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if your leaking coolant wouldnt a leak test tell you, will you see bubbles come up in the rad. or do a
leak test on the rad, that will tell you if you have a leak, i think that most auto part stores have
one you can rent or use, but your uncle prob has one in his shop. but have you tried a different carb yet.
i might have one i can let you use to see if thats the problem.
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Matt my 250 has done same thing for around 10 months. Ive chased everything like you have. New primary coil new pick up. Different cdi different coil. Checked all connections. Checked harness. But mine doesnt run right first threw 3rd. I have 400 main in. But I can pull a 450 clean threw 4 th threw 6th. But will not pull it till 4th.. but mine has flashes were it runs right for a pull or to then back to crap. Im pulling motor apart this weekend im going threw everything. If I figure mine out il let you know asap.
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Probably not related but funny you mention it mines weeping tranny fluid out of the primary drive gear seal.
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Did notice some transmission fluid pooled up on the concrete under the quad.... Not sure if that's related
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I'm going to bore scope my cylinder in a night or two. If I'm leaking water wouldn't their be rust in the cylinder if it's leaking water?
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I sent it iceracer and he found it what happened was the sleeve and cylinder separated causing it to leak.
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My 250 was doing the same thing found out I wad leaking coolant into the cylinder and burning it.
How did you find the leak?
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My 250 was doing the same thing found out I wad leaking coolant into the cylinder and burning it.
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I pulled the clutch cover recently and didn't notice any mixing of coolant with transmission fluid. So I don't think it's a water leak.
No new news lately grk. Been working a lot lately and haven't had time to look into it more. Planning on working on it this weekend.
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any new news on this matt, maybe its time for a leak test.
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Have you made sure you dont have a water leak
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Glad i'm not the only NOOB around here :D
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Well I just ordered 7 different main jets from 380-440 gonna rejet it down a couple sizes have a 450 in now. See if it changes at all or if the problem persists.
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Got the same problem but my exaust smoking white, the crank seal on clutch side pop out from his place and the oil goes inside the combustion chamber. i replaced it with locktit and now is good.
hope is help.
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Deebo mines doing the same thing but I haven't dropped my main jet yet. I hope I don't continue to have the bogging from 3/4 to full throttle. I dropped my needle to the leanest clip position and it didn't really make a difference at all.
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do you have a different carb to try,
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Just gave it another whirl... Still the same. Rev cleans at idle, just acts up when you're in gear
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is your pv moving
It wasn't stuck. I set it back to the stock tension though.
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is your pv moving
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damm matt are you still having trouble.
do me a favor take header pipe off and check for carbon build up at exhaust port.or inside pipe
I pulled the pipe and cleaned everything out. I did have a good amount of "spooge" coming from where the flange meets the cylinder. Cleaned it all up and sealed the flange up. Gonna give it a try again today after work
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damm matt are you still having trouble.
do me a favor take header pipe off and check for carbon build up at exhaust port.or inside pipe
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Just thought I might chime in. My 250 I just rebuilt had a similar problem on the top end and i thouht it wad a jetting problem. At the end of the ride I turned it off then it wouldn't start. Thought it was a ignition coil. Tested everything and found it was the primary coil going bad in the stator. I know you replaced it with another but is that a new one or a known good part. Good luck with your problem. Hope this helps.
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Fresh packing on the silencer, pulled the pipe and the piston skirt is good shape. Slight buildup in the flange but nothing substantial. Still the same result...
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Someone send me a set of reeds to test that they know are good. I'll send em back :)
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Damn Deebo, this is some serious process of elimination. #1>
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After seeing your silencer I don't think that is the issue, your tube looks pretty clear through the middle.
Leaves the motor or the reeds, electrical and carb have been swapped.
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Swapped carbs, still the same. Silencer is pretty clogged up so in gonna start there. Also gonna pull the pipe and check the piston skirt. Ill report back
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well matt whats going on with that pig, did you get it figured out,
might be time to change carb
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Remove the silencer and or look for any core failure or other problem that could be adding restriction to the exhaust flow over the original design. Adding restriction to an existing system will usually require a smaller main jet to keep it from having a rich miss-fire at wide open throttle and high RPM.
Remove the pipe and look at the piston skirt and see if any of the skirt is missing.
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Went through the wire harness from front back checking for loose connections and cleaning any that looked dirty. Still having the same issue
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Pulled the outer ware, new plug. Slight improvement, but still experiencing the same issue at 3/4-full throttle.
I've got a K&N with an outer ware... may throw it on there and give it a go. K&N with outerware perform well in dusty conditions?
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Are you running a spark arrestor type of muffler? If so remove the screen and make a pass down the street.
Are you running the air box lid? If so remove it and make a pass down the street.
If you are not running the air box lid, remove the air filter element and make a pass down the street.
Currently setup with the Aaen pipe, no spark arrestor, and no air box lid. Foam filter with an outer wear.
Pull the filter and make a pass? Sounds interesting..
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I have not had good results using an outer ware on the outside of a foam filter. The filter oil gets on the outer ware and then the outer ware acts like a plastic bag over the outside of the foam filter.
Remove the outer ware and make a pass down the street.
Have you changed filter oils or possibly over oiled the foam filter?
Among all the other things I've done to trouble shoot this issues, cleaning and oiling the filter was one. I always oil as directed, let the oil soak in properly, then remove the excess oil. I'll remove the outer ware in the morning and give it a shot.
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Are you running a spark arrestor type of muffler? If so remove the screen and make a pass down the street.
Are you running the air box lid? If so remove it and make a pass down the street.
If you are not running the air box lid, remove the air filter element and make a pass down the street.
Currently setup with the Aaen pipe, no spark arrestor, and no air box lid. Foam filter with an outer wear.
Pull the filter and make a pass? Sounds interesting..
[|]
I have not had good results using an outer ware on the outside of a foam filter. The filter oil gets on the outer ware and then the outer ware acts like a plastic bag over the outside of the foam filter.
Remove the outer ware and make a pass down the street.
Have you changed filter oils or possibly over oiled the foam filter?
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Are you running a spark arrestor type of muffler? If so remove the screen and make a pass down the street.
Are you running the air box lid? If so remove it and make a pass down the street.
If you are not running the air box lid, remove the air filter element and make a pass down the street.
Currently setup with the Aaen pipe, no spark arrestor, and no air box lid. Foam filter with an outer wear.
Pull the filter and make a pass? Sounds interesting..
[|]
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Are you running a spark arrestor type of muffler? If so remove the screen and make a pass down the street.
Are you running the air box lid? If so remove it and make a pass down the street.
If you are not running the air box lid, remove the air filter element and make a pass down the street.
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Stator swapped out. Still the same issue
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I switch all mine over to a regular bolt
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Man, those stator plate screws are the worst. Even with an impact i still manage to booger them up.
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I have another stator I'm gonna swap in tomorrow morning. Would have been done tonight, but the stator plate screws are trashed
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Replace the pickup coil. I had the same problem the coil look good and tested good I replaced it and problem fixed
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Switched carbs, and it does the same thing. Gonna go back through the electrical and check all the connections.
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You know the other thing I've seen is $hit in the main jet circuit or the parts just not working right. It's happen to 3 or 4 bikes. We break down the carb, clean it, never find anything and put it back together and it works, problem solved?
Maybe if you messing with the jets pull the whole assembly apart, needle jet, the jet needle, and the main and spray a little berrymans chemtool in there and make sure they are unblocked and clean, no dirt, no sand.
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Replaced the CDI, still experiencing the same issues... Only other thing it could be is the reeds? I think... Anyone know where to find some 88-90 V2 reeds?
I do not think that your reeds are the problem but changing the reed will not hurt anything but your wallet.
I still think that you are missing something with the carburetor or something electrical.
Back to the garage then.
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Replaced the CDI, still experiencing the same issues... Only other thing it could be is the reeds? I think... Anyone know where to find some 88-90 V2 reeds?
I do not think that your reeds are the problem but changing the reed will not hurt anything but your wallet.
I still think that you are missing something with the carburetor or something electrical.
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Replaced the CDI, still experiencing the same issues... Only other thing it could be is the reeds? I think... Anyone know where to find some 88-90 V2 reeds?
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damn. Hate when the cdi goes out.
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it maybe a good ideal to jet your carb back to your prevous seting before runing it with new cdi
Thanks for the heads up LTman... already done. :D
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it maybe a good ideal to jet your carb back to your prevous seting before runing it with new cdi
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250 & 500 CDI the same?
Yes.
I also think it is ok to run all years but please verify that with someone.
Not 100% if they have different timing curves for 88-90?
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CDI is bad according to the specs in the manual. WTB!!
250 & 500 CDI the same?
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Electrical work isn't one of my attributes
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4.24 without the cap...
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Anyone ever use this stuff on electrical connections? I've used it in other electrical applications...
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u558/Deebo1819/nooxid_zps4ca95913.jpg)
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Electrical work isn't one of my attributes
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Some testing. Pick up and power source coil test within spec. Primary ignition coil resistance is .4 (within spec). However, secondary ignition coil resistance (between pos on coil and spark plug cap) is testing at 8.76 kilo-ohms. Manual says 3-5 is within spec. Could this factor being out of spec cause the issues I'm having?
Bad cap? Bad coil?
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u558/Deebo1819/Mobile%20Uploads/36E2B582-D21D-4F11-B6DA-60AD9715DE4A_zpswos9dcnt.jpg)
Remove the cap and then test the coil and plug cap independently. If you were checking the coil with the plug cap installed on the coil wire you are probably ok.
8.76K - 5k = 3.76K
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Some testing. Pick up and power source coil test within spec. Primary ignition coil resistance is .4 (within spec). However, secondary ignition coil resistance (between pos on coil and spark plug cap) is testing at 8.76 kilo-ohms. Manual says 3-5 is within spec. Could this factor being out of spec cause the issues I'm having?
Bad cap? Bad coil?
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u558/Deebo1819/Mobile%20Uploads/36E2B582-D21D-4F11-B6DA-60AD9715DE4A_zpswos9dcnt.jpg)
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Let me know what you find. Ive been chasing this around for last 8 months with no luck.
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Best thing you did Deebo was take a step back and talk about it. Sometimes you just have to set the tools down and sleep on it.
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99 percent of the jetting problems I see are Ignition and electrical. Usually guys try to jet out an electrical issue, resulting in a seizure when it suddenly runs rite just long enough to screw them.
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I believe all reeds are available just not the cages.
Your reeds looked decent, do they sit flush on the cage? or are warped/flare out at the end?
I'm willing to bet your problem is with the electrical though.
Id say you're correct. I put a new harness on it a couple months ago. Gonna try to go through it this afternoon
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I believe all reeds are available just not the cages.
Your reeds looked decent, do they sit flush on the cage? or are warped/flare out at the end?
I'm willing to bet your problem is with the electrical though.
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No extra reeds. Was thinking about getting a set though. Anyone know if V2s are available for small reed cylinders?
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Just keep eliminating things by switch them out.
Do you have an extra set of reeds you can try?
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Pulled the stator cover, adjust the pick up down some to about .030. Fresh fuel, still experiencing the same symptoms.
A wide air gap on the trigger coil will not cause the problem you are having.
Do like toydoc recommended. Install a new spark plug and set the spark plug gap to about .018". If you have consistent spark but weak spark, reducing the spark plug gap will help diagnose a weak spark problem.
If you have a weak spark (voltage to the spark plug) reducing the spark plug gap will often make the engine seem to run normal for a few minutes.
If you have a peak voltage tester the voltage to the coil from the CDI box should be over 100 volts. If the voltage is lower than 100v check the resistances of the ignition coil, stator source coil, reluctor (pick up coil on stator) and wires in the wiring harness.
Check all of the bullet connectors under the fuel tank. They have a habit of getting dirty and or loose.
A bad ground could also cause the problem you are having as well as a wire in the wiring harness may only have one or two strands of wire out of twenty strands that is not broken.
I have had one LT500 flywheel that caused the engine to misfire any time the RPM was over about 4000 RPM and full throttle. I could not detect a broken magnet, weak magnetism or any other measurable difference between the bad flywheel and the one that made the engine run perfect.
Thanks for the advice, I'll start checking through the wiring tomorrow.
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Pulled the stator cover, adjust the pick up down some to about .030. Fresh fuel, still experiencing the same symptoms.
A wide air gap on the trigger coil will not cause the problem you are having.
Do like toydoc recommended. Install a new spark plug and set the spark plug gap to about .018". If you have consistent spark but weak spark, reducing the spark plug gap will help diagnose a weak spark problem.
If you have a weak spark (voltage to the spark plug) reducing the spark plug gap will often make the engine seem to run normal for a few minutes.
If you have a peak voltage tester the voltage to the coil from the CDI box should be over 100 volts. If the voltage is lower than 100v check the resistances of the ignition coil, stator source coil, reluctor (pick up coil on stator) and wires in the wiring harness.
Check all of the bullet connectors under the fuel tank. They have a habit of getting dirty and or loose.
A bad ground could also cause the problem you are having as well as a wire in the wiring harness may only have one or two strands of wire out of twenty strands that is not broken.
I have had one LT500 flywheel that caused the engine to misfire any time the RPM was over about 4000 RPM and full throttle. I could not detect a broken magnet, weak magnetism or any other measurable difference between the bad flywheel and the one that made the engine run perfect.
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Pulled the stator cover, adjust the pick up down some to about .030. Fresh fuel, still experiencing the same symptoms.
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IMO, stop dropping jet size. Try fuel from another station. Switch plugs and close the gap some. Pop the cover and check flywheel. Had ignition issues with the same symptoms.
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Fuel is fresh, just not a lot in the tank... Just a week old. It's definitely a sputter. At 3/4 throttle to full throttle, it just cuts out intermittently, definitely rich. I put a 350 main in it just to see if that would clean it up any and it didn't.
I'll double check the fuel flow...
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Remove the main jet access nut in the float bowl and turn the fuel on. May sure there is enough constant flow to keep the float bowl full.
A 20 degree change in intake temperature should require about one main jet leaner. Has your fuel been setting for a month or so and all of the good stuff as evaporated and is trying to run on an abnormally high mixture of premix oil.
My definition of a bog is when the engine is lazy or does not make power and does not sputter. If you have a bog it is usually lean. If it sputters at 3/4 to full throttle it is rich or has an ignition problem.
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My 500 was running fairly well, jetted during 60-65 degree weather. Now it's pushing 80-85 and it's starting to bog really bad at 3/4 thottle to full throttle. I went down 5 main jet sizes from 410 to 360 and raised my needle one clip and it's barely cleared up the 3/4 - full throttle range. I've never had to go down that many sizes before when changing jetting due to weather.
I pulled the reeds to see if they are giving me the symptoms I'm experiencing, but I can't really tell. All the reeds seemed to have tension on them, but they were some areas of question. I'm attaching a few pics.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u558/Deebo1819/Mobile%20Uploads/3760692C-AA82-438A-8117-F64B25B074EC_zpsclmkywzf.jpg)
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u558/Deebo1819/Mobile%20Uploads/F2C0B684-D283-4B04-9A39-7A4897DF5ADA_zpsoojfwjly.jpg)