Suzuki Quadracer HQ

LT250R Quadracer => LT250R - Engine => Topic started by: 86quadracer on December 24, 2013, 11:40:46 pm

Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on January 01, 2014, 12:48:40 pm
obviously a bit longer, being that you are adding 8mm of material. of course the factory nuts sit down quite a bit to give you some room for added plates but If I remember off hand, "don't hold me to that", I think I grabbed studs off of an old Tecate motor I had.
Like I said, It's been quite a few years since I did this mod so I am trying to brush off the cob webs.
It's a really nice mod, once done!
I didn't have the verbal help to guide me thru this mod when I did it so, I'll do my best to help you.
It is a nice reliable mod if you do it correctly. I haven't rebuilt my crank or top end in over 5 or so years.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 06:49:15 pm
Sry for all the questions. How long of studs will I need Joe?
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 04:05:09 pm
Ok thanks joe I emailed them and there is a good machine shop here in town.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on December 29, 2013, 04:01:46 pm
You hafta call them because I did mine quite a few years ago and I don't remember how much they charged me.
You will need at least a 20 - 30 ton press to press the crank, then a dial indicator to true the crank and a lathe or a fixture to set the pressed together crank into to true up with the dial indicator.
Not a job for a "newbie" no offense, but if you know a good cycle shop or machine shop, They can do it for you at a reasonable price.

joe
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 29, 2013, 03:39:47 pm
Call them or look up on their website
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 03:00:17 pm
How much were the blocks and everything from cometic
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: SBLT500R on December 29, 2013, 02:52:31 pm
Crank shaft jig And super strong press. This is not a job to try without the proper equipment.

my father rebuilt my zilla crank wthout a jig.  used a 50 ton screw press to get it apart and assemble.  did it by eye and  checked it between v blocks.  i ran it for 10 years till i had i rebuilt again.  didn't vibrate apart, he did a good job for not having a jig.  obviously a jig makes it so much easier, were around a grand 20 years ago when i looked into getting one. 
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 01:40:44 pm
Ok how much is it
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on December 29, 2013, 01:39:07 pm
Call Cometic Gaskets and tell them you need 2 "4mm" cylinder base plates cut in aluminum and 3 base gaskets.. It's that simple.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 29, 2013, 01:32:07 pm
A crankshaft has to be true when put back together. If not it will tear apart. The  guy said cometic gaskets. You will have to call them to order the plates.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 12:35:41 pm
How do I get spacer plates?
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 12:34:01 pm
Even if the crank is no good
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 29, 2013, 12:30:44 pm
Crank shaft jig And super strong press. This is not a job to try without the proper equipment.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 29, 2013, 11:41:36 am
How do you split the crank to remove the rod?
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on December 28, 2013, 12:40:10 pm
Sorry, but it's a little dirty and the sealer, but you'll get the idea.
Also, you will need longer base studs or, if they are long enough, you can back them out a bit. But I don't recommend that because when you torque the jug down, it may pull the studs out of the cases.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on December 28, 2013, 12:24:35 pm
I called Cometic Gaskets and had them make me 2 "4mm" aluminum base spacers for an 86 LT250 because they didn't have 8mm thick stock at that time so they cut me 2 4mm ones. Then I used 3 base gaskets to make a sandwich. One on the top, middle, and bottom.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Dezsled on December 28, 2013, 12:18:19 pm
Not many spacer plates made for these are there?
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 28, 2013, 11:57:29 am
Okay thanks I will do that then. Can u pm me what all I will need to do the long rod 86?
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on December 28, 2013, 11:53:49 am
Yes, but you will need to order a 85-86 lower rod bearing and pin because the 88-92 lower pin is a different size.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 28, 2013, 10:53:32 am
Would the 89 rod work
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Mgty3Whlr on December 28, 2013, 10:49:49 am
Hey guys!
The 85-86 crank is Totally different from the 87 and up years.
However, you can do a Long Rod motor on the 85-86 motors using the 88 rod.
But you need to use the 85-86 lower rod bearing (preferably new).
You will need to have a 8mm spacer plate made up (Cometic Gaskets) and 2 base gaskets (1 for the top and 1 for the lower of the spacer plate.
I did one and it runs really well.
Of course it doesn't compare to a modded 87 and up 250 but, it is a nice set up.
and runs very well, reliable too.
Joe
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 27, 2013, 03:40:22 pm
That's what I was trying to figure out thanks guys
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 27, 2013, 03:33:29 pm
That is what I was trying to say and plus the water pump hook up to each crank totally different.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Dutch_Rutter on December 27, 2013, 01:09:28 pm
Thats what I was trying to say in a nut shell. OK guys, so I looked everything over, and I did not even try to put everything together, the newer crank is so much bigger in diameter then the older that it would not really fit into the cases that well.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 27, 2013, 08:59:12 am
Thanks motorgeek that's the kind of answer I was looking for
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on December 27, 2013, 07:07:22 am
The 85/85 engine needs a special "twisted skirt piston" because the cylinder is twisted on the cases.  Does the ends of the crank use the same spline for the gear that drives the clutch?  Are the cranks the same width and outside diameter?

I assume you are wanting to swap cranks to save money.  If any of the above are an issue, you will spend more money making the late model crank work than it would cost to buy or rebuild the 85/85 crank.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: PCS on December 26, 2013, 09:13:22 pm
dutch i didnt think you were trying to put him down, just if i was 86qr, i might have taken it as why bother building the 85/86. like i said, 2 smoke zuki's arent considered to be great platform engines when it comes to the masses. team red/blue are...why else would they have such a large aftermarket support. Going fast takes $$$$ no matter what you build, just a matter of how much you want to spend  (Y) more so if you want to build any suzuki that has LT in the the name.
Good Luck
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 26, 2013, 04:41:53 pm
Sounds good send the pics to my cell u have my number from yesterday
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Dutch_Rutter on December 26, 2013, 04:35:25 pm
Sorry if it sounded that I was putting your plan down. Thats not what I mean at all, to be honest anyone who buys any atv is never going to get anywhere near their purchase price, or add on parts price if they try to resale it. We dont put $$$$ into these bike to make a profit, we do it because we love our 20 year old, outdated, money pit bikes.

I do have to admit, it would of been sweet to build my 85-86 motor up, But it would also been very discouraging when It grenaded shortly after I got it.  :-\

I tell you what though, (light bulb went off in my head) since I have both years of motors pulled apart, I'll "mock up" what your talking about. I will put my 90 crank in my 86 cases and see if I can make something work for you, by switching jugs, and seeing how much if any kind of spacer would be needed. I'll post up some pics when I get this tested tonight.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 26, 2013, 12:21:08 pm
I dont think he meant that Pcs.  What kind of performance you looking to gain 86
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: PCS on December 26, 2013, 11:41:45 am
If u want to build an 86 i would go for it. Not trying to smack talk but what Dutch said but that is what the Honda/Yamaha guys say about the Suzuki 2 strokes in general since those engines have larger aftermarket and make more power easier plus very reliable. Where the its a will their is a way. Only problem is that the way u choose can be very $$$. I would contact some of our engine builders here and elsewhere to discuss your project and see of they want to help make it happen. Imo if u are trying to build any LT250/500  u are already building something that isn't "worth it" but that is also what makes it fun and unique.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: Dutch_Rutter on December 25, 2013, 06:31:16 pm
To be honest its not really worth trying to build a performance 85-86 motor. Most machine shops won't port that motor for you. So even if you were able to do a long rod set up, you'll never be able to let that power roll out of the motor. If that makes sense? Your so much better off getting a 87+ motor and rebuilding that. They are so much more versatile and buildable. The newer motors can actually hold up to porting and can be made into some real power houses.

But if you are set on building the 85-86 let me know cuz i have a complete motor that ill make you a killer deal on.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 25, 2013, 05:40:34 pm
What's the best way to build a long rod motor from an 86
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 25, 2013, 05:39:01 pm
I'm not talking about waterpump
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 25, 2013, 01:49:09 pm
The water pump from the years you have will not work together. They both attached to clutch side of the cranks
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 25, 2013, 01:33:00 pm
Does the 86 have spacers on it
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 25, 2013, 11:28:50 am
I knew the rod length was diff but I was wondering why it won't work when the bearing is the same
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: LT250RWV on December 25, 2013, 11:06:06 am
Rod lenght is one. Their are just alot different.
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 25, 2013, 09:31:12 am
Can u explain what is diff about them
Title: Re: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: SBLT500R on December 25, 2013, 08:38:45 am
no  85 86 use a different crank.  no way to make it work. 
Title: 86 lt250r w/89 crank and rod
Post by: 86quadracer on December 24, 2013, 11:40:46 pm
I have a lightened 89 crank and rod sitting around can I put it in a 86 case ?