Suzuki Quadracer HQ
LT250R Quadracer => LT250R - Engine => Topic started by: Dutch_Rutter on November 25, 2013, 04:59:55 pm
-
Alright, so its been a while since I've made any progress with this lil project of mine. Now I'm to the point to where its time to modify my frame and I need some measurments.
Could someone get me the distance of the tube that goes around the header on the 87+ frames? I need to know how long the bottom "Y" part is as well as the top single piece. then I will also need a point of reference to weld the bottom of the "Y" to the lower frame.
Also why I'm doig this are there any other modifactions that I should make to my frame?? reinforcing weak points etc.
-
They are on page 4 and 5. Ill send all of the ones I have on my phone to you as well.
-
Don't see pics
-
Well that some very good news thank you sir.
-
Checked the part number its the same so you would be good.
-
I didnt think about the stator, I'll have to check into that.
-
Maybee stator to didnt check that
-
Ok, so thats another thing added to the parts list. thanks LT250rwv for the clairification on that.
-
Cdi have different oem numbers for 85 86 then 87 to 92. Just checked sgp numbers. So you will need another one.
-
It was worth a try.
That would be AMAZING! that way I get closer to having this done and one more step to welding up that tube swinger for you to guinee pig for me -->
-
Lol DR I would but I've already got a really fresh 87+ bottom end. I've got all new bearings an stuff for it,, plus I like the 87+ a bit more than 85/86 lol and also I'm piecing together a 500 mill so I can go from 250 class to open class in a snap! Lol
I'd go with the 2 down tubes. No bending to have to worry about.
And I would assume that since the 85/86 has different port timing than the 87+ that the CDI will have a different timing curve as well so I would go ahead an get the 87-90 CDI. If I've got more than a couple spares I'll hook you up with one.
-
I'm kinda curious about that myself. I think the biggest improvment is availability for parts and expandability with the newer vs the older motor. number wise I have no idea.
-
The only reason I'm not going to do the same with my 86' is only because it was MY 1st quad. If it wasn't for that, I'd make the conversion myself. How much of a difference is there between the 1st generation and the other gen's in terms of HP & FTLB's?
-
I donno yet I havent got that far yet.
Its not in great shape, the cylinder needs bored/hone, the cases need some attention to the bearing seats, the crank is shot. but other then that its in decent shape.
But before I get rid of that I want to get this 90 going together, dont want to screw myself over if it doesent end up working out.
-
I meant how much for the 86' you will be selling?....... --> LOL
-
How much for the motor? -->
-
All of the CDI boxes on ebay show they work from 85-92 So I might be good on that part. arent stock carbs for the 90 34mm?
well figure to get what you want you gotta spend the cash, well oh well if I dont spend it then my wife will on things like clothes that arent stained with oil.
and it will probably be something that I can work on wait for funds, order parts, wait for parts, work on, then wait for funds again.
Ok Ill be buying the 90 motor tomorrow. Ill post up pics when I get her home.
-
well yes a bigger carb would be good, you can find a oem carb for cheap, not sure on the cdi, if chuck didnt **** off kyle, he could tell you if you can use the cdi. lol
but i think if you take out the 1 down tube that goes into 2 tubes and just put 1 tube on each side then you would be ok, but yes put motor in first with pipe. oh and you will need a 87+
pipe, either way you gonna spend a little bit of cash, but most guys like the 87-92 motors
-
And I would have more performance, as well as more options for parts. Everything I read so far has said to cut out the lower part of the post, put complete motor in with exhaust, place pieces that are bent to form the upside down Y around exhaust and aline them so that you can weld bolt locations for the motor mounts. I would probably also weld the mount for the head just to do things right.
Looking at a good chunk of change for the rebuild on this motor, but I think I would save in the long run beacuse it doesent need as much machine work as my 86 motor does. What do you guys think?
Chuck, you should buy my 86 motor ;) after I get this done, just in case everything goes **** up.
Not to mention I would also need to get a different carb and CDI box, Right?
-
i think 2 down tubes would work, just take out the center one and put 2 new ones on each side,
and i think thats the only thing you need to do, then you wont have to take top end off to inspect reeds.
If I weren't triking my 88 frame that's what I was going to do since it's redone for an 85/86 motor
-
i think 2 down tubes would work, just take out the center one and put 2 new ones on each side,
and i think thats the only thing you need to do, then you wont have to take top end off to inspect reeds.
-
I'm thinking that that is going to be the way I go.
Maybe I should start a new thread on doing the swap since this one is getting kinda cluttered up :))
-
now your talking DR, do the switch..
-
Doesent sound too terribly hard. I can get a good one with the v force reeds for 150. If I don't swap it in I guess I can part it out for more then that. If its as simple as I think it is ill be parting out the 86 motor.
Has anybody done this and can give me more info on the job?
-
You've gotta cut out the down tub and fab an upside down Y into it for the pipe to go through. Only thing that I'm aware of that needs to be done.
-
Ok, now I have a very sweet oppertunity. Can I put a 90 lt 250 motor in my 85 frame? How much work would that entail?
-
I havent had a problem out of it seen the inserts. I had Jerry Hall do the inserts at hpr. His number is in the service section at the bottom of forum board.
-
on a stock to mild port motor they should be the last ones you buy, if your cases are in good shape just get them fixed.
-
Ok, So I should take my cases in and have them take a looka at doing inserts, I was looking at different cases on Ebay but, I think your right and they very well could be messed up too. Hopefully its only the 2 crank bearings that are bad. I would rather not pay for every bearing to need inserts.
How are they holding up thus far?
-
I have main bearing insert in my 91 lt250r. I done complete rebuild of my bottom end all oem sgp parts.. I have a build thread in the section members build. But my crank wobbled super bad back and fourth. It as either new cases or inserts. So I went new inserts. I had another set of 87 cases laying around as spares. 1 owner cases, bike was stock it whole life. Well the bearing inserts were bad in them to. So that why I went with inserts I didnt want to take a chance buy a used set with same problems. But inesrts will cost around 160 to 180$ per bearing pocket.
-
So because I want this to be an all around bike I should probably stay away from that. Thanks for the education Motoman. Sorry about all the dumb questions, this is the first bike motor that I have ever tore down with the intent to rebuild it, so its a BIG learning curve for me.
So what would cause my bearings to be loose in my case? worn out bearings, or worn out cases?
-
A flywheel stores rotational energy. It smooths the power delivery. A lighter flywheel will rev quicker, but also will drop revs quicker. A lighter flywheel will also reduce low end torque.
-
Dezsled, ok, so I should also be looking into a new flywheel, is there a purpose to getting a lightened flywheel? or should I stick with stock. I do have a really good deal on machine work so it wouldnt be too bad to have any work done through him.
Iceracer, we were talking about you earlier on here. So Would I be better off getting inserts put into my cases or should I look for some replacement cases? not the cheapest route but its an option, I would like to keep it cheap since that cuts down on time that its in pieces, but still keeping it worthy of being rebuilt.
Or could it be that my bearings are just worn out because of the flywheel not being put on correctly?
I do love stories let hear about the 88 ;D
-
You should share the story of my trashed 88' with these guys.
-
If you crank bearing are moving around in the cases you better get them sent for inserts that's bad. They usually come out attached to the crank.
-
My Zilla had galling exactly like that. I was told it was from the flywheel was not seated properly and the two parts needed to be replaced
-
only problems that I found was this gouge on the crank, some of the bearings are loose in the case, I was able to pop two of them right out and I am able to wiggle the crank bearings around a bit in the case too.
So how do I tell if this crank needs replaced?
and can I pull the bearings myself and press in new ones or should I leave that to a shop?
-
oddly enough the crank just slid right out of the bearing no tapping, no tool was needed.
-
other side
-
Soooo, After a broken penny I got the gear off, and took all the case screws off, then I thought to my self "what the hell" and gave a good tap with a dead blow on the crank rod, and she popped apart.
-
is there something wrong with Moose gaskets?
Mind enlightening me on what you mean by squish?
-
either get the oem gaskets or cometic, since your in the motor you should see about getting the head cut for the correct squish. and again iceracer is a good guy to deal with for that. not sure if the store has the gaskets for that year, you need to check or ask frank/mitch/erbe.
-
Sweet, I figure since I'm doing this I might as well put a little bit more money into it so it doesent blow up again.
when the time comes I will probably be PMing everyone just so I can get it all together quickly.
I found a 72mm piston kit on ebay for about $123.00 but thats not including gaskets. If iceracer can hook me up with some good deals thats probably who I'll go with since he loves charity cases such as myself -->
-
chrisg sells the washers, pm him on here
get the bearing from jason at honda east, or ebay
all that stuff shouldnt cost you more than 33 to35 bucks
i have heard a few guys complaning about the stores washers and slow shipping. they have them on ebay to.
you can get the piston kit cheaper on ebay, gotta look for it.
bearing 13.99
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=99+rm+250+wrist+pin+bearing&_sop=15
i think cunninham821 makes the washers also, maybe try to pm him, or ask iceracer. he might beable to give you best deal on all of that stuff, even the piston kit.
but if your dealer can get you bearing under 15, bucks then thats a good deal. you will just need to decide who do you want to pay for the billet washers.
sometimes if you ask seller to pay over phone they will give you a better price than whats on ebay, you get around there fees. you have to ask them tho.
-
Ok, another thing added to the when I get home list. I ran out of lithium grease last night so I didnt get too much work done on it :(
Just called redline racing a local atv machine shop and priced out some work and parts,
$45.00 for a full bore, which they said 72mm would be very do able and still fairly reliable.
$140 for a 72mm wiseco piston kit. Should I get the thrust washers and RM bearings from the store here??
$210 for a hot rods full crank kit.
$75 to have the bearings pressed onto the crank.
really good prices as long as I can do all of the disassembly and re assembly on my own, and theres not too much else that needs replaced.
-
springs still might be inside the paw, check the small holes for them
-
GrkGuy, I took the shifter rod apart after I pulled the case, Followed the manual and thats how it said to do it.. There was 4 screws that had to have a impact driver to get off, that held basically pieces that held the rod in place. other then that, that was it.
Chuckie, ok that makes sense. Still dont remember any small springs so those might be bouncing around in there somewhere. or they were never put in correctly by the PO.
Hopefully I will be able to get it all gack in place without too much trouble when I start putting it all back together.
-
Sweet thanks guys, I'm telling you without your help this thing would of already been taken to the junk yard and given away for the price of steel.
Well there was some ground up mess in the bottom of the case, so that might be where they came from, I didnt notice any springs after I took the shifter assembly out, I did have the small rectangular pieces that are around the actuator (I have no idea what these parts are actually called). So I might need help putting that back together properlly when the time comes.
So tonight after I get home, We will give it a go at pulling that gear, then what tool can I rent from an auto store to split my case?
those squares should have groves on them where the tips of those nipples sit into, the nipples are hollow and take a spring inside of them. The nipple pushes against the groove in the square and holds it out to where it works like a ratchet. Pretty slick set up for sure!
Also, the "ground up mess", if its like an aluminum paste almost it'll be clutch material
-
dutch those little parts look like they go on the shifter paw, there should be 2 small springs that hold them in place
when you took case cover off did you pull out shifter rod, is so then the paw might have come apart, but i thought there was something else that held it in place, not sure on the 85-86 tho
thats why they looked familiar!! Those are a B**CH to get back in the right place on a trx450r.... and you're right because i didnt pull them out of my 87 when i tore it down but again, thats an 87 not the 85/86
-
Sweet thanks guys, I'm telling you without your help this thing would of already been taken to the junk yard and given away for the price of steel.
Well there was some ground up mess in the bottom of the case, so that might be where they came from, I didnt notice any springs after I took the shifter assembly out, I did have the small rectangular pieces that are around the actuator (I have no idea what these parts are actually called). So I might need help putting that back together properlly when the time comes.
So tonight after I get home, We will give it a go at pulling that gear, then what tool can I rent from an auto store to split my case?
-
dutch those little parts look like they go on the shifter paw, there should be 2 small springs that hold them in place
when you took case cover off did you pull out shifter rod, is so then the paw might have come apart, but i thought there was something else that held it in place, not sure on the 85-86 tho
-
I heard someone say to use a penny in between the gears so you can use an impact to get the nut off, the thinking was a penny was so mallable the it wouldn't hurt the gears just stop rotation
YUP. I do this very often. Just dont do it on a 400EX and drop the penny on top of the oil pump and then forget about it.
-
Ok, that seems reasonable. I picked up this tool on ebay but I kinda want to get this thing off and not wait for shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300883226184?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Any idea if its reversed threaded? I was looking at the manual and it only says that the drive gear is but nothing about the other gears.
-
I heard someone say to use a penny in between the gears so you can use an impact to get the nut off, the thinking was a penny was so mallable the it wouldn't hurt the gears just stop rotation
-
I replied to the thread, also theres a guy around me parting one out that I sent a text this morning.
Anyone have any advice for getting the counter balance nut off?
-
check in on e2s someone is parting out a 86 motor, might get a top end cheap,
-
Ok so using your formula the non gouged bore is 71.2216mm and the gouged one is 71.374mm
so my next question is, is this cylinder able to be bored or should I be looking to replace it?
I'm guessing my options are
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-Wiseco-LT250R-LT-250R-250-Quad-Racer-Piston-Kit-71-50mm-1-5mm-Bore-85-86-/151135571098?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233061cc9a&vxp=mtr
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-Wiseco-LT250R-LT-250R-250-Quad-Racer-Piston-Kit-72mm-2mm-Bore-85-86-/171140793964?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d8c9466c&vxp=mtr
for piston kits, and Then I could bore to match. or would that be pushing the wall to thin?
How can I get the counter balance nut off? the book says to use a conrod stopper, do I need to get one or is there and easier way? and is it reverse threaded?
Also I found these two little things, in the bottom of my crank case, any idea where they came form?
-
First picture is 2.804 inches.
Second picture is between 2.809 and 2.810 inches.
-
The numbers on the top of the piston btw are 9685H
First and second measurement are attached.
-
Do you mean 2.84 inches? To convert to inches.
1inch = 25.4mm.
2.84 * 25.4 = 72.136mm
This is assuming that is 2.84 inches.
Can you take a picture of the dial caliper?
-
Ok, so Im feeling a little dumb. I grabbed a dial caliper and measured the inside diameter of the cylinder wall. the measurements of the original surface was 2, 8, 4 and the gouge measured 2, 8, 9. the reason I feel dumb is that I dont know how that transfers into MM.... <1>
-
Alright, I get a little ahead of myself sometimes :). Tonight's project was mainly getting most of the important parts off, greased and bagged up. Tomorrow I have drill with the guard then I'll be able to start working on it again Sunday when I get to finish the preliminary tear down, then pull the motor out of the frame then the real fun begins.
-
Most you find will need boring but you still could potentially come out cheaper in the long run if your cylinder can't be bored enough to clean up the gouges and needs to be resleeved. Buying a good cylinder off ebay then having it bored in most cases be cheaper than having a sleeve put in your current cylinder. Like you said........figure out what bore your cylinder is at now then go from there.
-
Took a quick look and I found
http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-1986-LT250R-Suzuki-86-LT-250R-cylinder-/380723657436?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a4e5fadc&vxp=mtr
and a few others but they all say that they need bored too. I'll measure it sometime this weekend and I'll post up what it is along with how deep the gouge is. If its beyond repair then I'll need to find another or look into a re sleeve.
That other motor still might be usable, I have not gotten any word yet either way, so heres hoping
-
I see 85-86 cylinders pop up on ebay all the time pretty cheap.
-
I saw piston kits on motorsport outlet for the 85-86 up to 72mm but I think that would be pushing it.
I guess I need to go out and measure the bore to know for sure what I'm looking at.
-
not sure on the rm, but i think you can go 69mm on the bore
well thats what the 88 - 92 can go to. not real sure on the 85 - 86
where is Kyle when you need him.
-
Oh, I wasent going to, that is what I think the Previous owner did with it. no this thing is pretty JACKED up.
I have a buddy who does machine work so I can probably get it bored pretty cheaply, I do wonder though if that would be too thin what is the max that someone can bore these things out without them blowing up?
I think I read somewhere on here that you can swap a RM250 cylinder, is that really a thing?
-
numbers should be on top of piston, clean all the carbon off of it, you will see them.
and you might lose 2 bore sizes, your gonna have to send top end out for a bore and you will need new piston.
do not try to put that back together like that. and yes some builders cut pistons, they all do something different.
-
numbers on the top of the head read 9685H also the piston skirts have half moon cut outs on them is that a normal thing?
then it also has 534 on the bottom
so what are my options for a replacement cylinder?
BTW only one side has a gouge the other is clean, just to clarify. Yea its all been in there a while. I'm beginning to think that the PO did a "rebuild" using the same internal components to put it all back together thus causing this.
-
clean piston maybe you can get numbers off of it and it will tell you what bore your on.
-
yeah i think that cylinder is junk, does not look like you will be able to bore it out past those.
what happened there, not a fresh top end like you was told, no cross hatch marks in top end and piston looks
like it been in there a while.
-
Sweet glad to hear about the head and stater if they do not need replaced that is totally fine with me.
I Kinda think that it was a stock bore. I very well could be wrong, I should probably bring out my precision measuring tool and then I can tell. That big gouge was from the wrist pin grinding away at the cylinder wall.
I'm hoping that the crank shaft does not need to be replaced, because that not a cheap part. I do not know how I'd feel about putting a used one in it but I guess that is an option.
-
Special tools: I don't THINK so. I don't remember using any special tools on my engine other than a fly wheel puller.
Cylinder head: looks like a perfectly usable head!
Cylinder: depending on what bore it's already on it may or may not be usable. Those are some pretty serious gouges! Sheesh!!
Stator: in my experience it doesn't really matter how the stator looks, it's how it actually works. That being said, if it was running your bike before it will still be good. You can always change the source coil as just a precaution
-
And more,
Sorry about the multiple post but I got a restriction on file sizes...
how does that stater look btw? old but functional?
-
and more
-
Ok, so I got some pics.
-
I donno about the hybrid mod, this is a quad that other people will be keeping warm for me while riding my CRF until I see something that I gotta do on a quad or running sand trails and some forest trails. basically when I get bored of my bike :))
So I got it home this snowy and icey morning. I very slowly pulled the trailer with bald tires behind my lil 4wd ranger. And stuffed all of the bike into the garage. So right now as she sits, the motor is still in the frame but both of the covers are pulled off, and the clutch assembly is pulled apart, what parts do I need to pull off and grease and ziploc before they rust to nothingless? then I'll pull the motor from the frame. and get to work with it on the bench.
Oh and are there any special tools that I should pick up?
I'll post some pics of everything when I start pulling it apart, I think my stator is still in usable condition, but I'm assuming that the crank will deffinately need to be replaced.
-
People on this website love the rebuild threads. You are in good hands.
-
If the motor is bad get a 500cc motor and throw that in there. You won't regret it:)
-
Oooo ziploc seals in the freshness (Y)
Thanks chuckie that would be a great help.
Now I'm actually excited about getting into this thing tomorrow. I will be taking a lot of pictures and asking A LOT of questions. But before I do any of that I gotta clean up my garage and work bench so I have some room to work.I tend to use the pile method for not current projects so the current ones can be spread out and organized.
-
I clean the parts good and use the spray white lithium grease on them and put them in a Ziploc bag. Been storing spare parts this way for years.
-
Thanks guys you have made up my mind. Looks like I will be doing my rebuild ;D
It will probably take me a while until I can get it done but It something that I can take my time and do right. What do u use to keep parts from rusting? I've used white lythium grease for bigger engines, would that work in this case to or should I just plop everything in a bucket of oil?
I'm really hoping that it is an 87 but so far with my luck it will probably be an 85, BTW pretty sure that my motor is an 86 but the frame is an 85 just some side info.
-
I'll never get back close to the money I have tied up in any of my quads if I sold them........and I really don't care cause I don't think of resale. I have built or am building them the way I want to fit me........powder coated frames, shipping parts all over the country for chrome or machine work, custom building parts.
-
The Clymer manual is pretty freakin great. The only thing it doesn't have is the 3 timing marks on the crank gears, counter balancer gear and crank itself. That's how you time everything. I added that into my book I have an original manual as well so I'll look through both and compare them for you
as for if it's worth it: In resale value? Not really unless you're building an all out show quality restoration and then you STILL won't get back what you put into it. Not now that you've gotta rebuild an engine. But as far as enjoyment wise: The first time that you really get to ride it you will be sooooo happy that you put the time and money into it. Trust me on this man. It's amazing. Just don't let anyone else with an lt move close to you because then you'll put even more money in your bike LMFAO
If you wanted and if it's in your budget and of that other motor is really an 87, it would be EXTREMELY worth it to take and cut away the single down tube and replace it with them upside down Y down tube to fit the 87+ center exit exhaust/power valved motor. Talk about a kiiilllleeerrrrrr pulling motor!!
-
It's really hard to give a price on the overhaul, especially if your paying someone else to do it. You can go on the Honda East website and get a ide of what the bearings, seals and gaskets will run. The overhaul I'm currently doing on my 92 will be my first on one of these engines. I've done my trx250r and my best estimate is around $200.00 - $300.00 for all the gaskets, bearings, seals, clutch lock washer and a few bolts that had buggered up heads. I didn't really pay too much attention to the cost because honestly I didn't care, I love the quad. You'll prob spend around the same on the Suzuki parts. As for if it's worth it........only you can answer that. From a resale stand point it's not worth putting a penny in a quad, you'll never get it back. I don't intend on selling my Suzuki or Honda so I do what it takes to repair them, keep them running and modify to my liking.
-
I know that its near impossible to know for sure without first knowing about that second motor and what all is wrong with my current one but any idea what I would be looking at price wise for the whole overhaul?
And honestly since u guys have functional bikes do u think that they are worth the time and cash that I will be putting into this motor?
The current manual that I'm rocking is the one that I downloaded off this site. Clymer or something along those lines, is there a different one that I should get ahold of?
-
They aren't bad at all. The first one is intimidating but just pay attention when you tear it down, take pictures if you feel the need and have a good manual. Plenty of help on here if you need it. I would replace all the bearings in the cases while I was in it. Check over your trans parts for excessive wear, cracks and chips.
-
I was thinking about that to. I talked to the shop owner and he actually said that he would tear into the other motor to see if any of the parts could be used with my motor. He said that he would be able to tell me in two days or so.
Now that I'm doneish freaking out about this thing grenading on me. I figure that I will bring mine home tomorrow and tear it down while I wait for him to tell me about that other motor. That way I actually have an idea on what will need to be replaced. Apparently the flywheel was loose and ground a little bit into the Case cover, the crank moved forward, back as well as up and down. The piston is toast and it will need a bore hopefully leaving enough cylinder wall, that's all he could tell me about it without splitting the case.
Are there any other things that are probably going to be wrong or that I should replace anyway?
I REALLY appreciate the help with this task, I am pretty intimidated about doing a rebuild on it, I've worked on car/truck engines all my life but I have nerve tore into a bike motor. So it will be a learning experience.
-
I agree with Chris. The buck fifty motor is worth the gamble. Even if the cylinder needs a bore it can't be as bad off as your other cylinder. And $50 says the crank is in better shape than yours too.
We can definitely walk you through the rebuild. A lot of people are intimidated by splitting cases because of the transmission but it's nothing difficult at all
-
I'd but the $150.00 engine then tear it down and see where I was. It's a gamble but you may end up with a good crank and a top end that's in better shape.
-
I guess what I'm asking is do you guys think that its worth rebuilding? And would u guys mind helping talk me through doing it? Because the other option is to part it out.
-
You have a very good point. now that I think of it I'm not 100% on what year its from. it might be an 87 which would be pretty nice. I could even use it as a learning project to strip apart just to get more familar with these motors.
Now you have me convinced to spend even more money, I dont think my wife is going to like that I signed up on this forum if I keep finding reasons to spend money lol.
I'll get some pictures and info of it when I go to pick up the LT.
So just to give you guys a quick update, I got word from the shop and my motor is all kinds of jacked up. the crank is free but is very loose with lots of play, and the wrist pin came off on one side and has been wearing on the cylinder. fix from the shop is to do a complete rebuild which for them to do will run me ballpark $1200+ the same shop does have a LT motor which needs significant transmission work at least, so I might be able to frankenstein a working motor together cheaper then that, but I'm not sure yet. From the sounds of it I can rebuild it for more then another bike, scrap it, or try to do a rebuild myself and save some $$$ any opinions?
-
For a $150 you really can't go wrong. It's a relatively cheap gamble with potential for a very good return. Even if it doesn't run, you still get some spare parts from it. It may come in handy someday if you decided to keep it or it may by chance need nothing more than the usual going through. With these motors costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars...
I say again, buy it or give it up LOL
-
Grkguy, I think that is a very high possibility but the way that it was running tells me that there is something else that's wrong to.
All American, I was debating on picking it up to part out. But I don't how what kind of shape everything is in, and havent looked into it more.
-
your floats could be out in the card not letting it fill all the way up
-
Shoot, that's cheap! Buy the dang thing! Or give us the number lol
-
I thought that at first to but, I had it every way possible, and had over 1/2 tank of nice new fuel in it. Its really odd after all of the problems it has had. I'm guessing that there is deffinately a carb problem, and very possibly a top end issue like a bad gasket somwhere. I dout that there is an internal problem, but there is always a small possibility of that.
I am certain that before I got it, the motor had some work done but neither I or the owner before me have an idea on what, so hopefully it was done correctly but from all of the odds and end bolts that is holding this thing together I dout that it was.
Luckily the same shop has a complete/could be running 86 lt 250 motor they will sell me for $150.00 so that may be an option.
-
almost sounds like its running out of fuel, have you tried it on reserve, how much fuel is in tank.
-
Chuckie, I agree with you, but I cant help but to kick myself in the azz a little bit for trading that CR125 for a bike that I now have to pour some money into just so I can ride it. But its also at the point where I have one tennishoe knee deep in the mud and I need to stop b**chin about it and put the other foot in the mud LoL
GrkGuy, That is a very good idea. I will do that, I might also want to see everything after they pull the top end apart. The owner loves me mainly because during the winter season I seem to be the only person in and out of that place. All these fair weather riders around here.
-
if you are good friends with the shop you sould see about being there when they start jetting bike. maybe you might learn something.
and it will help you next time you need to jet bike, like when it warms up you will need to jet again.
-
Hey man it's no harm no foul. You made an executive decision and are happy with that decision so that's all that matter for your bike!
And I doubt it'll be a busted azz parts bike. It was at least running and riding before, even with a broke clutch spur/boss.
-
Dimsi, yep, I saw that. the second time I looked at the book ;D
I ended up using the strap wrench and got everything off, but that stud came off with the bolt that was threaded in it. So now that is also going to need to be replaced as well.
I know everyone is going to yell at me, but...... I took into the shop this morning mainly because I'm not going to have time to work on it and I dont want all those internal parts getting rusted by sitting out. So we are going to hear from a very reliable shop that also ONLY charges me for parts (Y) whats wrong with it as well as what I'm actually working with bore, and porting wise since the prevous owner swapped in an 86 motor into the 85 frame I'm assuming they did not keep it stock. (on account that I would not)
so with that being said I'm either looking at a MONSTER LT or a busted A** parts motor.
-
Just to make sure you didn't miss that detail but the clutch basket nut has a reverse thread, so loosen to the right.
-
impact will take it off, or you need a clutch removal tool, if you have any extra clutch plates and fibers you can make your own, just weld them together and put handle on it, or you can use a strap wrench, craftsman makes a rubber one that worked for me before.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=lt250+clutch+tool&_sop=15
-
Dangerouspower, I saw that after I took it off. I think that one piece that comes through the pressure plate is the cause of my metal flake, because the shift rod i guess the rod that is between that piece and the actual clutch cable, is covered in a bunch of flake/oil.
and now I cannot for the life of me get the nut that holds the clutch sleeve hub on. It seems that the previous owner way over tightened it. any hints to getting this thing off?
-
Clutch basket looks pretty grooved and the piece that comes through the pressure plate (forget its name) looks to have some chewed up teeth.
-
So this is after I got the cover off. It looks pretty clean all in all to me. I am now going to follow the manual and tear into the clutch assembly.
Second picture shows the first problem I found.
-
Yea drain the coolant and oil, pull the kicker, make note of how your clutch pull and all looked before you take it apart. Take pictures with your phone, it helps a LOT! Especially for your first time.
Pull the cover off, then look at the crank and look along it into the case. You'll see the black rubber (it is rubber right y'all?) seal. If it's protruding out or anything then it's blown. They can also come apart at the lip and leak. You can try mixing some soap and water in a spray bottle and spraying it around it then roll the motor over slowly and watch for bubbles. That might work but I'm not 100% sure. About the only way I could think of doing it without having to pull the crank nut and gears off.
As for the metal flakes in the oil: it's more than likely clutch "dust". It'll look like aluminum and be kinda like a paste. But again that's just going from my experience with my first LT. I'm no expert,, I've only had mine together for like a year and a half or two years.
-
Fuel is flowing just fine from tank to cylinder, there is no visible air leaks in boots or anything that I can see at last.
I could imagine, this is freaking me out, and I don't have much cash into this thing yet.
So drain coolant/oil and pull the kick start lever, and pull the clutch cover off? is there any way that I can see if that is the problem after I take it all off?
I also noticed some metal flake in the oil, so I should probably be worrying about that as well..
-
How well is fuel flowing into your carb?
Im still leaning towards a clutch side crank seal but that's how mine sounded the one time I forgot to turn the fuel on. Good lord did that scare me hearing that fresh engine lean out like that...
-
ok, I'm in the process of putting a video up on youtube, (SQHC isn't liking me right now) Its a short vid of it idling and speeding up with no throttle or choke, and then dying. it is a cell phone video so it kinda sucks but you can at least hear how its running. there is a lot of dark oil coming out of the cylinder, and white smoke when idling, but only when idling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZJgsMqIECU&feature=youtu.be
here it is
-
i guess a vid of it running would help us, even a cell phone vid could work, did you try it with choke on, how did it run with that.
-
Alright Ill give it a try. I have the book downloaded on my pc, so walk me through this.
-
Clutch side seal. Get one for ten bucks and locktite that suckered there. Smear a little grease in there too. A little oil and you'll be riding again soon.
-
Ok I'm gunna put my money on the clutch side crank seal.
Save a lot of money and do the work yourself bro!!! We can talk you through it or of you get yourself a manual you can learn from there. It's suuuuper simple stuff
-
So I went out to take the video, and it won't stay running right. Now its running away off idle and dying like before. I think I'm throwing in the towel on it and must take it into the shop for a full inspection an probably an overhaul.
-
I will upload a video of it running tomorrow. Its really odd and hard to explain. I'll just throw up the go pro and give a quick run so you guys can see first hand.
-
What do you mean by chunky?
Like loaded up real bad? Or acting like it was on a rev limiter? I have a video of mine where it was suuuuper loaded up when I took off I could post if you wanted?
-
OK, so I took it for a run today. And from what I can say something is very wrong.. mid range is very chunky I guess, for lack of better words. I did manage to get the power band to kick in. In first second and third but the bike was really hesitant and it never got past the chunky midrange in fourth. After getting it running it was not smoking but it would on ide, even after running it. I plan on taking it in on Tuesday unless we can get it fixed before then. Any ideas?
-
Ah now it is all making sense. I also really think that there was and probablt still is some unburnt garbage in that cylinder, I still havent had the chance to run it yet, Part of working security for retail stores around this time of year and having a life dont really coencide.
-
well you gotta shake it good, i sit on bike and try to rock it back and forth, using the front brake to help get it mixed good.
you gotta think when gas settles the oil drops to bottom of tank, when you turn fuel on you either get a slug of oil or a slug
of gas, guess where that goes, straight to carb, guess where your having your problems at.
-
This last time I think I forgot. But I usually try to give the bike a good rock before starting.
-
do you try to mix gas in tank before you start bike each time after it sat.
-
Buckeye, If I cant figure this thing out that might be just what I do. LoL
GrkGuy, I hope your right, I can believe the un burnt oil because of how many times its been kicked over without starting. and then just eft to sit. Ill run it hard tomorrow and see what the end result is.
Just for my knowledge how can one check their crank seals? spray it down with WD-40 and check for dry spots?
-
just try to run the bike, try to run a wide open through the gears.
check carb boot, for any tears, check both crank seals. i think bike is just loaded up with a bunch of un burnt oil.
do you try to mix fuel in the tank before you start bike.
-
Here's the best plan of action take about $500-$1000 and glue it to the motor and call it done, then sell it and tell any potential buyer you have $1000 in the motor and can show proof!! Save yourself the headaches!! Lol
Just kidding time to tear that biotch apart and figure out what's what!
-
I'll have to build one and give-er a go.
-
I smell a leak! Lol
Yeap time to make you a leak down tester
-
Time to invest in a leak down tester.
-
AHH the two stroke thing :)) Isn't two stroke smoke supposed to be blue? Maybe I'm just katarded and am loooking for things to fix. on idle it was speeding up by itself then it would just die. felt that was kinda odd. I'll be able to get a good ride in tomorrow and see whats up with it.
-
clutch side crank seal? Is t trying to run away on you? take it for a small ride (if you can) and get it good and cleaned out. THEN see if its still smoking bad. Also, depending on what oil youre using it could have separated from the fuel in these cold temps
-
No bubbling.. So that makes me wonder why the smoke?
My guess, only a guess is that it's a two stroke? :o
-
No bubbling.. So that makes me wonder why the smoke?
-
Start it and pull the radiator cap off. Watch for bubbles. If it bubbles then your leaking
-
so started it up again just to make sure that I was not imaging things, so its smoking quite a bit.... but its white smoke. and The fuel that was dripping from the header now looks to be coolant. So I am assuming that I'm getting coolant in the cylinder. any way to be able to tell for sure before I pull the dome off? So time for a top end rebuild? Also the header seems to be loose on the exhaust flange any fixes?
-
It's an LT something is going to go wrong again you can count on it!
-
Yea it was smoking pretty good. I'm very happy to feel as though its fixed, but I still cant get over the feeling that it will just happen again.
-
Could have been like what Greek said and she was just loaded up real bad. Letting it sit open like that let the gas evaporate out the plug hole. Did it smoke bad when it first started?
-
The most amazing thing just happened!!!!! The last two days or so the LT has been sitting in the garage with no plug in.
I go out 6 minutes ago or so throw a plug in disconnect the fuel tank and think what the hell might as well try it. First kick with the choke on and she starts right up and seems to run pretty good. did not get to rev it up because of sound ordinance at this time. Any one have any idea on what might of just happened???
I'm going to try it tomorrow again just to make sure that I'm not imagining this.
I cant believe that my tools fixed it by themselves. but I cant think of any other explanation.
-
Ok, I went and took a quick look this morning before work.
Grk, the carb is not leaking just with the fuel on. as best as I can tell it floods the cylinder with gas when its kicked over. So this tells me that the entire problem is inside the carb somewhere, am I correct in thinking this?
Gillio, checked and all of my fluid levels are good and I dont have a sign of a blown crank seal, yet, That was my first thought when I say the fuel/oil leaking from the head pipe but to find out it was just old nasty gas.
I'm picking up a rebuild kit for that carb today, I'll go with a nice cleaning and the rebuild tomorrow morning, hopefully this clears up my starting problems, then I can work on more important matters.
-
If your still having issues after the carb clean. You might wanna look at the state of your crank seals. The torch trick might have pushed one out.
-
i was just wondering if it was leaking fuel into top end and giving you a motor full of fuel
-
no worries . its here if ya want it .
-
GrkGuy, nice to see you on here! thanks for the recommendation btw. I'm sure that the cylinder is pretty gunked up. Before I push started it the last time I took off the spark plug after trying to kick it then I used a torch and put just a little flame to the spark plug hole to try and clean it out and she backfired a cloud of nasty out. So i'm sure that your right about it needing to be ran hard after I get it to start again. So just to clarify your saying to take the fuel line off the carb, and to close which valve? (sorry might be a dumb question)
Andy, I might take you up on that offer, I think I should still try to give this carb a good cleaning and maybe a rebuild before I start adding more things to my "todo" list.
When I get a chance to play with it it will be Wednesday day because of working security for a retail store this week gets pretty crazy for me. I hate the holidays.
Thanks for all the help guys, hopefully I'll be able to have her running again before next week, then I can go riding and break new things :))
-
i got a keihin 36mm pj carb , cable and some jets .$50 plus shipping if ya want it ,the throttle cable came with it when i bought it a couple of years ago off a guy on the old site .never tried it and now dont need it .
-
i think it just needs run hard with lower jet, needs to clean its self out. take fule line off and close valve see if it leaks and watch carb. does it **** alot after
its off.
-
Yea that looks to be a TM34,, It's the same carb as youve got now. I dont think they changed carbs from 85/86-87/92
-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190935099139#ht_1279wt_744
here it is, it looks identical to my current 34mm. I missed out on a good deal on a 36mm on Everythign2stroke for $35 might be able to get a good one one here I havent looked through the classifieds yet.
But for the price of a rebuild kit, I'm kinda thinking of picking up one for my carb and gettign it to work while I keep an eye out for another good deal I do not know yet..
-
Post the link to it so we can see? Stock carbs for the 87+ were the TM34 I believe,,, but i know my stock throttle cable pulls my PJ38 all the way open so you should be good in any case
-
Sorry about the hurried post, but this 36mm is from an 88 LT250, would I need a throttle cable for this or would my current one work?
-
Awwww... Sad day for my 85 Oh well, I'm sure that I will be able to find something for it. Those are some pretty mean looking pipes none-the-less.
So on flebay I found rebuild kits for my carb less then $20 and they come with everything I would need, but I also found 36mm carbs for $110 used to $200 new and then I saw a 40mm carb for $300 new :-\ Time to add the 36mm to the shopping cart.
-
I dont believe there is an SCP for the 85/86 but i could be wrong,,, the best pipe for them is claimed to be the FMF. A 36 would be a good all around carb that would give you a few extra revs and then later one when you want to have the bike ported you already have the bigger carb to play nice with the new porting.
-
Gillio, Yes like one of these SCP pipes that I keep reading about. I really enjoy how those things slope back instead of the knotted up mess of the FMFs.
Chuckie, You do have a good point. I wonder if I do get a 36mm carb if I would just be adding more problems onto it and just get lost and mis-diagnoise a little problem with a BIG solution.... mmmmmm sooo many choices. lets take a look at ebay.
-
If you can afford it i would go ahead and put a better carb on it. But again you will be starting off from ground zero with having to rejet it and all.
-
Yeah keep chasing the Carb. Also tell her the carb only works right with a shiny new pipe.
-
Gillio, so do you think that I should be looking into a carb rebuild kit or should I just get a used bigger carb like say a 36mm off a newer LT and a rebuild instead of my stock 34mm?
Would be a good excuse to tell the wife why I needed to spend the money.
-
Sounds like its dumping unwanted fuel into it. I'd be willing to guess your o-ring on the seat is leaky. Or the needle itself, but its usually the o-ring
-
Thanks, With the last name of Rutter and in basic training that was the nick name I got given and its just kind of stuck.
Really is a great and unique bike, I just dont have much experiance working on 2 strokes. I'm too used to my CRF450 and the wife's Z400 but I am really excited to get this LT running and looking like the champ I know it can be.
-
Love your profile name! I'm curious what some of the gurus on here say because my Zilla ran perfect all weekend two weeks ago, took it out Sunday and it was really cold and back fired then wouldn't run without a lot of throttle and would bog out and stall. I think it's something with my reeds but I really have no clue. Hope someone posts to get you pointed in the direction of getting the two fiddy running strong!
-
Alright guys I refeered to this site by a buddy on evrything2stroke.
So I took this 85 LT250R + some $$ on a trade for a 01 CR125. It ran fairly decent except it idled high and when it was opened up instead of the power band kicking in it sputtered and backfired and never felt like it opened up fully. It also was rather difficult to start, and when it did start it leaked oil/gas from between the header and head. I talked to a local shop and the owner a very reliable source who said that it sounded like it was running too rich. So I replaced the 200 main with a 190 main, I also did the normal new bike stuff, cleaned the air filter, changed all fluids and put in new gas. new plug
Now she wont start by kicking it. I did manage to get it started by push starting it, It ran very rough and would not stay running without alot of motivation by the thumb feed. Also it was spitting out clean gas out of the head/header. I've cleaned the carb several times, by pulling the jets and soaking everything with carb cleaner.
Thanks in advanced for the help. I cant wait to get this beast running again so I can dump $$$ into lots of go fast parts.