Suzuki Quadracer HQ
LT500R Quadracer => LT500R - Engine => Topic started by: Nopick on November 19, 2013, 09:22:31 pm
-
I just did my 250 carb boot to match my 41pwk, i heated it carefully with a propane torch and slowly pushed an inch n 7/8 truck ball into it then ran under cold water, it worked perfect :))
-
Yeah that's the one Bret. Thanks for the info.
Like I keep saying its hard to believe that this HPR motor will run any harder. It's already violent & dangerous.... :))
-
Sorry I'm late to the swap... Does this carb bolt on to oem Zilla intake/airbox boots?
If you're talking about a VM44, if JH modifies it for you he will turn down the OD on the bells and you can boil your intake boot then fit it on the carb & let it cool. it'll work with good with just a little struggle getting it on and off.
-
I have also read that turning down the OD of the carb flanges helps on some of the big carbs.
-
Here is a comparison photo of a stock VM44 and one I had machined down. On the intake side of the carb I also had it shortened so the carb wasn't so long and both OD turned down, this makes life easier getting it in and out of the stock boots. Still requires some stretching of the boots, but not nearly as much without the machining.
-
Dezled, ive heard u have to heat and stretch both the intake and filter tube to fit the vm, 2c
-
Sorry I'm late to the swap... Does this carb bolt on to oem Zilla intake/airbox boots?
Got the black throttle tube for the gunnar gasser :o
-
"Loves to breathe." "Likes big pipes and filters."
I think every builder I have talked to has said similar things.
-
The zilla loves to breath! Long ago Arlen at LRD told me that in his dyno testing the vm44 mikuni put out 3hp more on the topend on a stock nonported fmf equipped zilla over a Keihin pwk39 with no hp loss on the bottom. I'm sure with even more mods the difference becomes even greater, plus I love the look of the old school roundslide...gives more of the sleeper effect to the squids at the hill.
-
Q? LOL. A legend in his own mind.
-
I was told once that a lectron 48 is equivalent to a 46mm on other carbs. Is that a true statement?
Yes and no, a HV, (high velocity) has a 2mm reduction in the center to increase the pulse. Lectron makes a regular straight and a HV, the regular has no reduction.
i only said Q to be funny, haha lol get it. he is the only one that can build a motor like that in his eyes.
guess it went over a few heads. lol
Had me worried there Grk, I thought aliens must have abducted you [|]
-
Who's Q?? ::)
-
i only said Q to be funny, haha lol get it. he is the only one that can build a motor like that in his eyes.
guess it went over a few heads. lol
if you wanna go fast call jerry hall..............................................
and matt i have heard the too.
I don't think it went over anyone's head.
-
I think cr told me that up at silver lk
-
He put out a couple new vids?
P*
-
i only said Q to be funny, haha lol get it. he is the only one that can build a motor like that in his eyes.
guess it went over a few heads. lol
if you wanna go fast call jerry hall..............................................
and matt i have heard the too.
-
I was told once that a lectron 48 is equivalent to a 46mm on other carbs. Is that a true statement?
-
Grk is right on the porting, a 50mm could be used but it will only work properly on a drag ported motor especially with a lectron.
I would recommend another builder for porting but we all know how that goes.
One last point, though everyone is limited by their budget, a motor is an air pump system and you can not just buy one piece have the rest mis-matched and expect highest performance. So buying a 50mm lectron and slapping it on a stock port motor, with a Q V-1, some v-2's and a large filter won't get you the highest performance on the drag strip or on the trails and ou'll be pissed b/c you spent good money and you're performance went down on both ends.
If you want a drag only motor have JH port the crap out of it and run a 50mm lectron. If you want to drag & trail/dune then get a aggressive dune/drag port and get a Vm44, or a HV44 lectron (they'll cost you about the same to get and set up in the long run).
You have to start with the end in mind otherwise you'll be chasing your tail all over the place continuing to spend $$$ until your happy.
You seem to be like the rest of us not happy until you've got the max performance possible for what you want to do so figure out what you want gather the parts.
-
That is harsh.
-
Grk Q could offer to do the work for free and I wouldn't send him my stuff.
-
GrkGuy recommending someone call Q for work. Something is seriously wrong with the world. P*
-
50mm you better call Q for some port work then.
if bike does not have the hp to suck in air you will be slower with that big carb. and you will never get it jetted right.
-
I saw that Bret but that's a 44. Is the Lectron a better 44 then the Mikuni? Shearer told me to get a 50mm Lectron for drag racing that's what I was referring to when I said 4 or 5 bills or more.
-
Derrick,
Back on the first page you said you'd run a lectrn if it wasn't 4-5 bills.
FYI: J-Zilla has one for sale with all the goodies in the 2 bill range.
http://www.suzukiquadracerhq.com/items-selling/lt500-parts-for-sale/
-
Frank Powerstrokin is talking about the VM44.
-
But i found out the zilla runs very boggy without the 6dk3 needle on stock Carb , bore 87.5 , without portings,
PT Pipe, with air lead.
-
I had my needles backwards in my head on my last post, so I modified it. I'm running the 7dh3. I want to try the 7dh2, since it is leaner. I screwed up when I originally bought my carb and ordered the snowmobile version. I've had to change so much crap around to get it to work right. I've lost track of a lot of stuff. Being a snowmobile carb it had the 7dh2 needle originally, but I have since lost it.
I researched the differences in the two versions of the carbs and noticed the snowmobile carb had a 0.7 air jet and the bike version had a 0.5 air jet. So I went to order the 0.5, but sudco didn't have it when I tried several years ago. So I'm curious if that is part of the problem also. The thing is, I have never found clarification as to which air jet is leaner. I am certain that a physically bigger air jet is leaner, but the scale could be inverted, for all I know, to save confusion, since larger numbers usually indicate richer in a carburator. (If that makes any sense)
So which way is it? Is 0.5 richer or leaner than 0.7?
Oh and thanks for the info on the needle jet change. Looking at the mikuni manual it looks like that will have the biggest effect on the range where mine is fat. I ordered an aa-0 and a 0.5 air jet and a 7dh2 needle. I'll start playing with it after I get everything put back together.
-
Yes. Stock needle and needle jet.
-
And the needle jet 6dk3 ?
-
My engine is an 89 small reed with 500 Fanatics HRD porting. The intake is a Honda 250r air filter without an air box. Stock ported intake boot with a stock cage and Boyesen reeds. Stock filter to carb tube. Exhaust is a Q V2.
Carb is stock other than the bore as far as I know. I am not aware of Q making any modification to metering circuits.
1200 feet elevation
70 - 90 F Temps
450 - 460 main
25 or 30 pilot
Airscrew ~1.5 turns out from seated
Needle clip on the third position from the top
-
Nopic !
Please tell me the exactly jettings of the 42 mic .
I will build me for my self in Germany ,
I think make savings for the shipping costs..
Cheers Brother +k2
-
I had my needles backwards in my head on my last post, so I modified it. I'm running the 7dh3. I want to try the 7dh2, since it is leaner. I screwed up when I originally bought my carb and ordered the snowmobile version. I've had to change so much crap around to get it to work right. I've lost track of a lot of stuff. Being a snowmobile carb it had the 7dh2 needle originally, but I have since lost it.
I researched the differences in the two versions of the carbs and noticed the snowmobile carb had a 0.7 air jet and the bike version had a 0.5 air jet. So I went to order the 0.5, but sudco didn't have it when I tried several years ago. So I'm curious if that is part of the problem also. The thing is, I have never found clarification as to which air jet is leaner. I am certain that a physically bigger air jet is leaner, but the scale could be inverted, for all I know, to save confusion, since larger numbers usually indicate richer in a carburator. (If that makes any sense)
So which way is it? Is 0.5 richer or leaner than 0.7?
-
I'm running 7DH3 needle.. check your needle jet.. mine is an AA0. That really cleaned things up vs the AA5. Adjusting the Idle tells you a lot about the pilot size but also listen for the "ring ding ding ding" after a high RPM throttle blip... if your hearing that its a lean condition caused by to small a pilot jet and can hurt the motor.
-
I've got a 22.5 pilot in it, and a 7dh3 needle on the leanest setting. I think a 20 is the smallest pilot, which I played with, but it starts and idles better with the 22.5. I need to play with a 7dh2 and see if that helps. I'm sure it would. It's biggest problem is from 1/8 to 3/8 throttle. It'll load up pretty bad in that range.
-
The UFO,s are supposed to help throttle responce.I,ve never run them but if Dale says waste of time I,d tend to believe him with all the testing/tuning he,s done.
When I bought and setup my vm44, I bored it to 46mm and put the UFO in it right off the bat. There really doesn't seem to be any way to get it tuned right on the bottom end with the UFO in it. It is pig rich and lazy. I primarily just drag race the zilla, so I have tolerated it. If I had it all to do over again, I wouldn't have ever messed with the UFO. One of these days I'm going to get a new slide and start over again on tuning it.
Dale or Jerry, do you guys think the slide could be salvaged after being modified to accept a UFO? I could plug the bolt holes easy enough, but I'm afraid the cutaway would never be right.
If running a UFO you need to run a smaller pilot, that could be your rich issue off the bottom. I put that stuff way back on the shelf after testing and don't recall the exact recomendations but we did go through all that during testing. I was disappointed, in theory it should have been an improvement. BUT it didn't hurt anything.
As far as the slide, yes plug the holes..JB weld or something..if the cutaway hasn't been modified shouldn't be an issue.
I like running the Aluminum slides..buy for about $80 I believe from Sudco. The 2.5 cutaway is what I'm running on my stuff.
Jerry is out for a couple days.. don't think you'll see a response from him till next week.
-
Jerry surprised everyone when he commented saying the UFO mod was snake oil. I'd imagine it was from testing on one of Dale's Bikes.
-
The UFO,s are supposed to help throttle responce.I,ve never run them but if Dale says waste of time I,d tend to believe him with all the testing/tuning he,s done.
When I bought and setup my vm44, I bored it to 46mm and put the UFO in it right off the bat. There really doesn't seem to be any way to get it tuned right on the bottom end with the UFO in it. It is pig rich and lazy. I primarily just drag race the zilla, so I have tolerated it. If I had it all to do over again, I wouldn't have ever messed with the UFO. One of these days I'm going to get a new slide and start over again on tuning it.
Dale or Jerry, do you guys think the slide could be salvaged after being modified to accept a UFO? I could plug the bolt holes easy enough, but I'm afraid the cutaway would never be right.
-
When you going back up to visit this buddy Motoman?
-
The UFO,s are supposed to help throttle responce.I,ve never run them but if Dale says waste of time I,d tend to believe him with all the testing/tuning he,s done.
-
My VM44 has that UFO plastic piece. I bought it right when I got the carb. I don't know if there is a difference between having it and not having it. I wouldn't know about expensive dyno time, my buddy never charges me lol.
-
Ufo's or vm44's??
-
UFO is a waste of time...expensive dyno time. Maybe you want like to buy a couple at half price to try for yourself?? one is lightly used.. the other still packaged.
-
Dale do you run that UFO gizmo on your vm44? I think I'm going to buy a 44 and switch to it for when I'm drag racing and keep my 41.5 for the trails and all other riding. I do agree the 41.5 has very crisp and snappy throttle response, everyone who took my bike for a spin a couple weeks ago couldn't believe how responsive and quick the power came on.
-
Is that the alcohol version Dale?
I run them in both gas and alcohol applications.. 44's and the 46's.
Dale I imagine you've run a 41.5 tm38 at some point is there a noticeable power gain difference switching to the vm44?
On my hard running dune motors, big and small reed, doing this carb swap only,.. . changing nothing else.., there is a gain only in the UPPER rpms 6500+ of 5-7%.
IMO If your not in a situation where you run at high rpm for very long the bigger carb isn't really needed. If your constantly just shifting gears speeding up slowing down your not going to benefit. The 41.5 will give a snappier response..goes a little further on fuel too...I'm running one on the "girlfriends" (ex.. :'() bike we dynoed for the last pipe comparison, its in the 70's hp, great to ride. Look in the dyno section.
All the carbs mentioned in this thread are good and will run well if their set up right for your combo...proper tuning is the key.
Make sure whatever your working with isn't full of worn out pieces, especially the Keihn stuff. Makes tuning a real pain..also if your mains, needles, needle jets all that stuff rolls around in your tool box in back of the truck between tuning sessions they will NOT be the correct size when you go to use them!! I learned that many years ago the hard way with a beat up main jet. That brass stuff is soft and fragile.
-
Guess it all preference and whether whatever carb you run is setup properly.Like others I love the Lectrons for the 250 and 500,once dialed in I found they perform better all around than any other I,ve ran.Never ran a "reworked" Mikuni though.
-
I thought my pwk 41 had excellent response. That was about it though lol, im goin with the vm44 next spring and putting the pwk on the 2fiddy
-
Dale I imagine you've run a 41.5 tm38 at some point is there a noticeable power gain difference switching to the vm44?
-
My VM44 doesn't take long to "spool up" either....ask Q
-
yeah cant bitoch about the 42.5 stock carb, it does run very well with it.
bike is very crisp with it, you hit gas and it responds right now.
-
I have a standard 48 Lectron on my zilla. Has a Packard pe7 needle for alky. I purchased Lectron air fuel gauge to set the needle. It idles perfect and has great throttle response. I like mine. I found it for 150 bucks. Was set up for gas.
-
I had Pete bore my 42.5. It runs and responds good. I never ran it when it was a 38, so I have no input on that part. He did epoxy around the engine side to seal it up. Oh man are they thin! But strong. My .02
-
My Lectron / Mikuni experience is with a 42.5 Mikuni vs. a 44 Lectron so not a major size difference. Lectron = suckage, Mikuni = nice snappy performance! :D
-
I don't find a problem with the low end power on mine either, it's great all around, could just be my engine set up, but the power is always and I am not waiting on it to spool up.
-
Ive ran my lectron carb on desert trails and dune rides and haven't had any issues. One of the problems that Kevin, at lectron, explain that lots of the issues with trail type riding can be addressed with by running the larger fuel bowls and a different float set up. They usually come set up to run drag races hence they don't work well for trails. If u set them up trails they can work better. As for losing throttle response, u can't make a fair comparison between 2 carbs unless they are of the size to begin with
-
i thought everyone rode wide open, lol
-
I have the 48 lectron on my hybrid and I love the ease if tuning! People say its only a drag carb but I trail ride with it and haven't had a problem. It definitely likes wide open better than putsing around
-
Anyone tested the standard lectrons standard 2mm taper vs the HV 4mm?Both mine are the standard 2mm,never had a HV as of yet.I really haven,t noticed the 500 "spool up". Then again that's with a 44 not a 48 and stock small intake cylinder.Running the V1 pipe as well.
-
I know a couple of guys that switched back to the 42.5 for the low end power. Just depends on the type of riding you plan to do.
-
he is scared of it, lol
i have a 48 lectron also, havent put it on yet, but i rode CR's bike with his and i freaking loved it. i thought it worked very well with his set up. you can feel it spool up, almost like a turbo kicking in. this was drag racing tho. i would take off and then a sec or 2 later you could feel it pulling to the moon, front end was down when i started and then all the sudden it was standing straight up on me when that thing started sucking the air in.
...and that is why I didn't like it. It killed the instant low end power and throttle response that Zillas are known for. I had to wait for the spool up. I think it might just be the fact that the intake velocity is lower due to the large diameter tract.
I am not saying they are bad carbs and I am not trying to talk anyone out of using them. I just didn't like what it did to the low end of the power curve. The traits I did not like followed the carb from my Dad's Zilla with a V1 pipe to mine with a V2 so, it was the carb causing the laggy power... I talked to Dennis Packard about the set up. He said I had the right metering rod and recommended a starting length. It didn't help. Richer and leaner adjustments to the rod length didn't help...
I did love the ease of adjustment though. I wish it would have worked out.
-
he is scared of it, lol
i have a 48 lectron also, havent put it on yet, but i rode CR's bike with his and i freaking loved it. i thought it worked very well with his set up. you can feel it spool up, almost like a turbo kicking in. this was drag racing tho. i would take off and then a sec or 2 later you could feel it pulling to the moon, front end was down when i started and then all the sudden it was standing straight up on me when that thing started sucking the air in.
-
Don't need more power??? There is always a need for more power! Lol
-
I wonder what the power gain would be going from a 41.5mm flat slide to a 44mm round slide. Cause to be honest I don't need any more power on the trails at all until I get lots more seat time on my Zilla under my belt.
-
Ive been told the vm can be bored to 46 but it doesnt make a real differance, not even on the dyno, this was my plains as well, but now im just gona run vm44 with out boring it.
-
I run a 48 lectron on my bike, and I ride in the woods and the dunes and the Rocky Mountains, hands down that carb works great for everything I do and easy to tune.
-
That's another reason I'm more likely to run the vm44 because I could drag with it and also trail ride with it. With a lectron I'd be swapping carbs from the drag strip to the trails.
A Lectron can be trail ridden with no problem.The 38 on my 250 is the best carb I,ve run hands down for trails,MX,drags.Bought it used and it had some issues but nothing a rebuild kit/gaskets wouldn,t fix.And the 44 on my 500 is far better than the Keihin 39 PWK I had on prior.Had some issues getting the 44 setup,make sure you have the proper needle as well as the correct needle and seat(gravity or fuel pump).Add on an adjustable pj and your good.
If you look around you can find some used ones for reasonable $$$.I sold a spare 44mm lectron a couple months ago.Needed cash and let it go for $175 canadian to a local guy.Bought a 44mm from a member on here for like $200.
If anyone wants a like new 39mm PWK from DR let me know.I,ll let it go pretty cheap.Shoot me an offer via PM.
-
Hey Derrick why not just run a lectron? That's what I run and I love it.
X2 on the Lectron.Had some issues initially but getting the right needle is key.What needle you running Cworobec?I,m running the 7-2XL.Came with a 6-2XL but was too lean on top.
-
That's another reason I'm more likely to run the vm44 because I could drag with it and also trail ride with it. With a lectron I'd be swapping carbs from the drag strip to the trails.
-
In my experience (opinion) , Lectron carbs suck for anything but drags or Hill shooting. I just traded a Lectron for a stocker so my dad's Zilla would have throttle response like mine.
I hated hated hated the way the Lectron made the Zilla run.
-
Zilla he's talking about boring a vm44 to 46mm
Chris I'd run a lectron but don't have $300-$500 to shell out for one. And I'd be clueless as to how to set it up and tune it I just learned how to semi get my mikuni right. I'd probably drive Shearer nuts with lectron questions on Facebook lol.
-
Hey Derrick why not just run a lectron? That's what I run and I love it.
-
are u sure your not thinkin of the vm44 bored to46 ? the stock zilla carb wouldn't except a 46 bore, its not even that thick?
-
Anyone know if the vm44 can be bored and if so to what diameter?
ive seen them bored to 46mm
-
The difference between stock and a bored carb is gaping.
Yeah I'll stick with my 41.5mm if I wanna go bigger which I am for my drag setup I'm going with a vm44. Anyone know if the vm44 can be bored and if so to what diameter?
-
Yep. Just for folks to see the difference.
Q bores them to 42.5. Jerry sticks with 41.5 because you can get leaks around the side of the slide requiring larger pilot and possibly needle jet. I have not had any tuning problem with the 42.5 so far.
-
Pcs I think he was just trying to show the size difference between the two.
-
one is bigger than the other _^_
what specifics would you like to know
-
I thought the biggest you should bore the stock carb was 41.5mm?
-
Comparison of a stock 38 to a bored 42.5.