Suzuki Quadracer HQ
LT500R Quadracer => LT500 - General Discussion => Topic started by: Scawn on November 08, 2013, 02:37:02 am
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Very nice job on the rebuild. Love that OEM fit quality. The Maier replacement plastic is fubar and takes a lot of work and re-drilling of holes to get it closer to OEM fitment.
I thought I read that you did some porting but I noticed that you didn't have the cylinder ears reinforced. Keep an eye out for cracks in that area.
Again, great looking update/restore!
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Killer Bike Man!! Love how this 87 turned out -
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I don't want to be rude but I must ask, how much did it all cost? You see, I want a quadzilla that's already freshly rebuilt like yours. Just curious how much it takes to do what you did compared to buying a zilla already restored. And I MUST know more about your smart carb. I don't know how to jet and the smart carb sounds easy enough. Do they make one for a 250?
First, we didn't end up going with the smart carb. The wait times were getting bad and the confidence was getting low. I won't say they're a gimmick because there are a number of people who have had great success with them, but I just don't feel it was right for the 500. I was disappointed because I personally don't care for jetting Mikuni carbs but we had the OEM carb bored out to 40.5 and that's what is on there. The Zilla is going for a dyno-tune yet and it will get jetted properly at that time. It's kind of sat on the side right now. Might end up switching to a Keihin later on.
As for price and what you should do, there are two ways to view this. You really can't beat building your own machine because then you know for a fact what's there, inside and out, and it's built the way YOU want it. I can tell you that it would take in the neighborhood of $9-$10k to buy this zilla the way it sits simply because there are receipts that total more than that. This doesn't include my time and I'm sure there aren't receipts for absolutely everything included. Some may agree with that and others won't. Now I used to be one of those people who would look at a build like this and think, "That's nuts. I can build one way cheaper". Well, after building a 1989 TRX250R, a 1986 ATC250R, and this 1987 LT500R to this standard, the cost of the build is only going to be determined by what you want out of it. If you seriously want it to be like this, you aren't going to do it cheaper. If you want a $2500 - $5000 zilla, well look around and you'll find them. But they aren't complete fresh builds to this caliber. I'm not patting myself on the back and preaching my abilities by any means. This is all about the amount of money that went into it and that's it. Top notch motors that are completely fresh and every single part either new or reconditioned. It all has a price.
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Smart carb is like $650. And pretty sure that tanked already.
http://www.motovox.com/smartcarb.php
It is just a lectron carb reworked. Was billet, they were working on a cast one but that failed.
You still have to jet it at first (and jetting a pwk or TM carb is very simple). The smart carb just allowed you to ride in a wider range of elevations and temps without rejetting.
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I don't want to be rude but I must ask, how much did it all cost? You see, I want a quadzilla that's already freshly rebuilt like yours. Just curious how much it takes to do what you did compared to buying a zilla already restored. And I MUST know more about your smart carb. I don't know how to jet and the smart carb sounds easy enough. Do they make one for a 250?
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We're going to have the fronts rebuilt and maybe have reservoirs added as well, but they were in excellent shape for now. Obviously some Ohlins or Elkas would make this feel even better.
You sure you can rebuild the fronts, I thought they were non serviceable.
I am also pretty sure the stock zilla shocks are ohlins.
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Wow that is a beautiful build on that 500. Bruce does a great job on decals. He made mine for my LT250s and my '82 ATC250R.
It sounds so good in that video!
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Who did the engine? Did you need a new piston? And did you ever get the "smart carb"?
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Any pics of the mod, and is this also done to the 250?
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Super awesome build thread.
So nice to see an older guy flat tracking in his own backyard on such a nice machine .
hate to clutter up your thread with this comment, but in the pic of the oringed head, I didn't see the water control mod done to restrict the flow over the exhaust???
Hate to see you experience a partial seizure on the exhaust side, Which is why I ask..
Can you touch base if you did the mod or are you running the head as it is pictured with no adverse affect's ?
I would have to check with Rob and see if he did that or not. I was neck deep in the ATC250R build while trying to get the rest of the 500 powdercoated so I don't recall everything that was done.
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Super awesome build thread.
So nice to see an older guy flat tracking in his own backyard on such a nice machine .
hate to clutter up your thread with this comment, but in the pic of the oringed head, I didn't see the water control mod done to restrict the flow over the exhaust???
Hate to see you experience a partial seizure on the exhaust side, Which is why I ask..
Can you touch base if you did the mod or are you running the head as it is pictured with no adverse affect's ?
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I see. Makes sense.
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I've never ridden a 500, but people say they are a pretty wide quad. Does it still feel like it's going to roll on the flat track?
They are definitely wide but a well built Zilla feels like a fast Cadillac. When I say well built, I just mean kept up and everything is put together the way it should be. We're running stock shocks and the rear was rebuilt by Andy at MaulTechATV. We're going to have the fronts rebuilt and maybe have reservoirs added as well, but they were in excellent shape for now. Obviously some Ohlins or Elkas would make this feel even better. When you ride it, even at high speeds, the width just oozes confidence and doesn't make it seem as if you're going as fast as you really are sometimes. High speed sliding turns are a blast and it soaks up bumps pretty well. Compared to a less wide quad, you can take turns with more confidence because even if it were to begin to hook an want to get up on 2 or 3 wheels, the width gives you more time to react and a quick punch of the throttle will typically break the rear end loose and set it back down.
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I've never ridden a 500, but people say they are a pretty wide quad. Does it still feel like it's going to roll on the flat track?
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No problem at all Derrick. Do you want them done in the same font and angle that I did ours? If not and you have a different font style that you would like, just point it out to me and I will knock it out.
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Scott that bike is so clean it's ridiculous! I need a set of them number plates with 88 on them!!
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Ok, finally got the custom decals done that I created thanks to Bruce at http://www.bluelinedecals.com/#!honda-atc-decals/c1yjm (http://www.bluelinedecals.com/#!honda-atc-decals/c1yjm), and just got the motor started for the first time.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2063.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2064.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2065.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/IMG_2510.jpg)
https://youtu.be/FH77svk99jE
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Measure the ID's where the pipe & silencer meets and get one of the silicone NX500 degree straight couplers and couple hose clamps.
Their blue is really nice if you can get one and I think a 3" long 1.5 ID hose is/was like $7 each.
http://hosetechniques.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=101&zenid=5auvaq544s8gpljb3phemlug37
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Scott I know the hall and Q pipe all used Rtv on all the exhaust joints.
I've got some (dare I say it) Hondabond, which has proven to be the best high temp RTV I've ever used. I'll definitely put some between the exhaust flange and head pipe, but after getting a Duncan Racing billet exhaust coupler on my ATC build, I just want something that solid on the zilla to join the head pipe and silencer as well to guarantee no leaks and look good as well.
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Scott I know the hall and Q pipe all used Rtv on all the exhaust joints.
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Thank you very much Glamisrider! At first it looked like foreign literature, but I printed it out and took it to the garage and it was most helpful. I got the wiring all done up, installed the new Pro Taper clutch lever, radiator hoses, and temp gauge. We also got the front end all torqued and adjusted along with all brakes bled. All that seems to be left is getting the exhaust properly mounted after making a gasket and finding what we want to use for an exhaust clamp between the head pipe and silencer, mounting the gas tank and airbox, setting all of the springs up, and then torquing down everything in the rear (the linkage is already done). This does lead me to a couple of questions though:
1. Why does Suzuki recommend Dot 3 or 4 in the front brakes but only Dot 4 in the rear? I'm assuming it's all about temperature but is it going to be noticeable?
2. How critical are the torque specs on the rear axle nuts? I believe the brake hub side is around 11 lbs while the sprocket hub side was over 100 lbs. Is there a better way to do this compared to the manual?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2056.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2057.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2058.jpg)
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^^^Good info!
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Still need to figure out the proper way to run the wiring harness along the frame. Need to properly preload the springs and then put the airbox in.
From the back of the loom:
1) The main loom comes off the stator/stator cover, through two metal loops bolted to the center stator cover bolt and the other top center case bolt next the upper case saver threads on the chain side
2) then the loom lay across the back of the cases just behind the carb, then up the back of the frame down tube just behind the lick starter and over to back bone where it plugs in to the 5/6 bullet connectors.
3) The main portion of the wiring harness lays just under the back bone on the kick starter side next to the throttle cable and other wires coming from the front through rectangular hole on the kick starter side radiator mount plate (where the steering column is mounted)
4) the CDI harness comes across the top of the back bone just behind the open box on the front of the back bone and connects the main harness coming from the rear of the back bone.
5) The other parts that meet the harness coming from the rear, (I believe, I can't remember exactly) come from the front through the same rectangular box on the kick start side of the steering column mount plate along with the throttle cable & upper radiator tube.
Hope that helps
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Keep the updates coming that thing looks mint!
Just a couple pics from yesterday. I finally got it down off the stand for the first time. Still plenty of things to be done. I need to go back over a lot of bolts and nuts to be torqued / thread locked. Still need to figure out the proper way to run the wiring harness along the frame. Need to properly preload the springs and then put the airbox in.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2053.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2054.jpg)
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Keep the updates coming that thing looks mint!
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Your 60 year old dad wanted a Zilla. You got a cool dad. Tell him to put a roll bar on the front. A number of guys hear flat track and give you the low down
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Scott I have a spare set of rear number plates I can mail to you if you want I'll need them back but they're to oem spec text me and we'll talk about it finish our convo on the plastics too.
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Wow, looks good. Great job on the build.
Thank you very much. We ordered some new radiator hoses from Roose Motorsports and they should be in this week. I've got the graphics done, I'm just not sure if the rear numberplates are the right size or not. Does anyone have a template for the originals?
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Wow, looks good. Great job on the build.
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I might take you up on that trip up north to check it all out before the baby girl gets here in September.
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Looks good Scott
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Very cool indeed.
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Thanks buddy. Funny story about getting new plastics. I had a buddy that worked at s Motorsport place got me oem zilla plastics at cost. On my way home they blew out of my pick up on the freeway!!! I hit the skids real quick. Luckilly none came out the Box or got hit by a car!!!!
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AMAZING build!! How about that box that the fenders come in? Mine looked like a refrigerator box from the dealer! LOL
Yea, each box was rather large. Thank goodness each one had free shipping.
super clean! #1>
Thank you.
Hey Scawn, you interested in selling your old plastics? I need s set for a project I have started? Let me know thanks
Very possible. My dad and I have been contemplating on whether to hold onto the old plastics or not. They are completely uncut and are still in rather great shape. I'll let ya know.
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super clean! #1>
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Hey Scawn, you interested in selling your old plastics? I need s set for a project I have started? Let me know thanks
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AMAZING build!! How about that box that the fenders come in? Mine looked like a refrigerator box from the dealer! LOL
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That motor looks slick!! Is that candy blue? Project looking great!!
Yes, all blue parts (including motor) are candy blue translucent from Columbia Coatings.
Looks amazing man! Can't wait to check it out in person one day.
We'll definitely have to hook up some time this summer. You're always welcome to stop up some weekend and check out the zilla and ATC250R if you want.
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Looks amazing man! Can't wait to check it out in person one day.
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That motor looks slick!! Is that candy blue? Project looking great!!
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Ok, so as you can tell, it's been QUITE awhile since I updated this post. The 87 has undergone some major work and it's taken some time.
I took it down to the bare frame.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2022.jpg)
Shipped the motor out to be taken apart and worked over.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2019.jpg)
Got the frame back in order.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2036.jpg)
Sent the color codes to the engine builder so he could have it powdered to match.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2027.jpg~original)
Had the head o-ringed while they were at it. Also major porting, complete bottom end rebuild and the normal upgrades.........
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2033.jpg~original)
we had a compression release added, and this is what it looked like when it came back. The motor sat inside on the bar for a month!
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2032.jpg)
Got most of the parts back from powder / paint.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2044.jpg)
Including what I was told is the last set of OEM fenders in Suzuki's inventory (not sure about that one).
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2046.jpg)
Some more test fitting of the plastics and seat.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2048.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2047.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2049.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/87%20LT500R%2050.jpg)
So right now, we're looking at having the seat recovered at Cosmic Quads. They did a cover on my ATC250R and the work was phenomenal. I'm also designing my own custom 87 OEM graphics. They're replicas with a twist, and that's all I'll really say for now. Nothing major, just paying respect.
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We've got an oval track out back and we'll be doing a lot of running around that so the extra width will help keep it planted on all 4 wheels. It's also a little bit of personal preference because he just likes how wide the back of my 250R is with the +4 axle is.
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Why does he want it wider?
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Not often people want to widen the rear of s Zilla!
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G-Force, Z400, or LTR450 hubs will widen the rear but you'll have to run 4/110 wheels. I am not aware of a 5 lug hub that will widen the rear.
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I got the OEM nose put on today and it looks outstanding. My dad is interested in widening the rear end. Does anyone make hubs that add +2 on each side? I really don't want to have to buy an axle and I never cared for wheel spacers.
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Welcome to the site! I saw your post on trx forum about getting the smart carb for the Zilla... I was actually gonna PM you to come here but looks like you found it! Can't wait to hear how the Smart carb runs on the Zilla... Im really intrigued by this carb! Nice bike!
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brake cleaner works too, it all depends on what paint they used on them.
or try a thinner.
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I would atleast take the top end apart if you think its on it original bore and inspect the piston for cracks and inspect it. If it blows, you will cause more damage that what a base and head gasket would cost.
2c
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Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure if we're even going to try starting it again before getting the SmartCarb on it. I was told that will ship the first week of December. Between now and then I think we're going to focus on just getting the rear rims swapped, put the OEM nose piece on, and cleaning up the a-arms, brake pedal, and shift lever as best as possible for now. My thought was to use WD-40 and a scotchbrite pad on those to removed the blue paint. Any better suggestions?
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rule of thumb is
turn on fuel, leave bike in off postion, pull choke
cycle motor with kicker a few times, this will prime carb.
then cycle motor again with kicker, you will notice 2 hard spots when doing this.
at the top of 2nd hard spot stop, turn bike on and kick it fast one good hard time.
after bike is warm, just cycle motor to 2nd hard spot, then kick.
if you just jump on it and try kicking it like is a honda or something you will get kicked back, oh and make sure handle
bars are turned away from your right leg, they have been known to put your knee into the bars, there are a few good pics around
from what a kick back does to your leg. its not pretty and hurts like hell.
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When the weather was warm I was hitting it on the first kick. Basically rolling the kick lever 4 or 5 times and then finding sweet spot and it would fire. It's not being as friendly now that it's gotten cold.
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do you guys know how to start bike in one kick.
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I will definitely be starting a "where do we start" thread. As I stated, it's got the FMF pipe and nothing else. The previous owner had only had it roughly 9 months and he had purchased it from his cousin to help him when he was needing money. Now he was selling it just to get his money back. He didn't know much about it other than his cousin had owned it for quite some time and as far as he knew the motor was still on it's original bore. I didn't even bother trying to reach his cousin because you know how that stuff can go. The motor doesn't appear to have been taken apart and it kicks with strong compression. Right know we just want to have some light fun with it and then this spring we'll tear the motor down to find out for sure what's inside. The biggest conflict we're having is what fuel to run. We've got access to Turbo Blue 110 octane @ $7.75 a gallone about 35 miles away. I've been told that if it really is the original bore, 93 octane at 32:1 is fine for just normal riding conditions. The previous owner said he was mixing 110 and 93 @ 50:50 and then 32:1 oil. We talked about getting a 50 gallon drum in the garage and doing 20 gallons of 110 with 20 gallons of 93 and then just pumping 5 gallons out at a time to mix with oil. Still haven't solved this dilemma.
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ohio huh, you guys need to come down to Yellow Creek/wellsville trails.
it down on rt7 in wellsville,oh. great place to ride, scary but fun.
good luck with the bike, we are here to answere any question you guys have, there are even a few members on here that build custom parts for these bikes.
tell your dad get the squish fixed on the head, run cometic gaskets and run the billet washers and the rm250 bearing for the top end rebuild. there are a few more cheap/free fixes for that zilla on here.
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w+ Another Buckeye! How many are on here now?
The bike looks great!
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We're located near Findlay, OH about an hour south of Toledo. There's a couple of reasons for going with the 38mm SmartCarb. First of all, SmartCarbs have no jets at all. Therefore you can adjust the rich/lean on top and the idle on the side and that's pretty much it. They're guarenteed to work for your application. You can get different metering rods for special applications but it's not necessary here. We were going to wait for the 40mm cast version but after talking to APT and finding that these build a broader powerband, dropping to the 38mm is actually going to give us more of what we're looking for which is a bit more power down low before the powervalve hits. Worse case if it doesn't work, we'll move it over to my TRX250R and go with an 88-90 carb.
Definitely have some clean up to do. The front a-arms, shifter, and rear brake pedal all need cleaned up. Everything else is there, right down to the key switch. He ordered the OEM nose piece, tool kit, and rubber strap that holds the tool kit in place. I want to either clean the a-arms or find someone parting one out and get another set and get a brake pedal as well. The shift lever should clean up pretty easily.
I've heard good things about Jerry Hall and was told he was a person to reach out to for information before I joined here. He just joined a TRX250R site about the same time I stopped visiting there so our paths hadn't crossed yet. Hopefully I can catch up with him here.
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I might be selling my 88 mikuni that's been bored to 41.5mm and has all the jetting setup by what Jerry recommends for my bike. Running that fmf you'll need to buy smaller jets for it but its in good working condition.
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looks clean, but old owner got kind of crazy with the rattle can. he painted everything blue.
but if your dad can cancle the carb he should do it, get a 88+ zilla carb and send it to jerry hall.
he can make a carb run like you have a built bike.
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x2 on hearing how the APT runs.Similar to the Lectrons but have never actually run one,or even seen one in person for that matter.
Very nice Zilla by the way. +k2
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nice looking 87! a little cleaning up the last guys spray bomb and she will be all set! Welcome to the site! where are you located?
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Here you go Matt try and keep up with the times man!! Lol
http://www.powerapt.com/smartcarb.php
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That is really clean!
What is a APT Smart Carb? The Mikuni used in the 88-90 Zilla's is a proven carb to use.
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Clean ride with a cool story! Definitely let us know how the smart carb works...
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That is one clean 87 Zilla you have there! I can relate to your story with your dad, I just finished rebuilding my Zilla and my dad funded the build and got to watch me restore an 88 from the ground up.
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Short story for ya. I used to race a 1986 Honda ATC250R back in 87-88. That was back in high school. Got out of it when they were outlaw'd and always wished we'd switched to quads. I've always missed riding but for whatever reason I never bought anything until I recently bought a 1986 Honda TRX250R. Now my dad and I have always been Honda fans, but over the last few years my dad had gotten into Suzuki and picked up 700 King Quad utility. As soon as he took one spin on my 2-stroke and smelled that exhaust, the days of me racing as a kid grabbed him and wouldn't let go. He's getting closed to 60, but said he wanted a 2-stroke of his own so we could go "have fun" together. He had me start looking for Suzuki 500's for him because he always has to have the biggest, fastest, meanest of everything. I found a 1987 LT500R for him at a killer price and he jumped all over it. We've had it for a few weeks now and I'm still amazed it's sitting in the garage. As far as we know the motor is 100% stock besides the FMF pipe. As you can see it has a Maier nose, DG bumper / grab bar, and ITP tires. We've got the aluminum rims for the rear tires and are switching those this weekend. It came with a set of rear paddles and front razer tires that we're gonna sell along with the steel rims. He's already gotten the OEM nose for it and the Mikuni carb sucks even when it runs right so we ordered an APT SmartCarb for it. That's supposed to be shipped the first week of December.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/DSCN1736.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/DSCN1739.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/scawn/lt500r/DSCN1741.jpg)