Suzuki Quadracer HQ
LT500R Quadracer => LT500R - Body / Chassis / Suspension => Topic started by: Sandman on June 11, 2013, 09:27:57 pm
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man I hope mine holds up, I went +6 on stock swinger :-\
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The stocker is already very light. Don't do any trimming..I would recommend adding a 1/4" plate top and bottom set into the "valley " so to speak for the full length of the arm, that brings it up even with the side rails..hardly even noticeable. It will still be lighter than the aftermarket Chromoly arms and the front section is very strong. Remember to make the cuts at the 45 degree angle for strength and more weld area.
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Awesome information, thanks Dale!! So if you extend the stock swinger by welding two together is it ok to trim some material off to lighten it a little, if so what material is safe to lose to save some weight? I only plan on doing a +4" or +5" so it's still trailable.
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Again... application applies here.
I've been told this by VERY experienced hillshooter/dragracer/fabricacator whom I buy products from..1" out front =+2" out back/swingarm. In my experience I think it holds true. I have multiple different setups.
..If you want to extend the stock swingarm the best/strongest/lightest way is to put 2 stockers together,.cut at a 45 degree angle..1 to maximize length..1 to maximize short.. +6" is possible...I recommend +4" max with the stock linkage/shock setup. (Metaltech Fab does this well) The original material is very light and very strong. This is a good way to go , I still have a +4" setup I have had for 6 yrs/ridden hard and going strong. I've had/seen others with foreign material added for length,.... they will break....unless its heavily reinforced.
As far as shock setup....the original linkage works good up to +4" if you respring and revalve the stock shock accordingly. (HPR Racing). If you go longer... the swingarm will begin to bow at the cushion lever piviot point and eventually break. It's just too much leverage up front. (Well that's also if you ride Hard LOL)
If your only running flat sand drags a no link setup is easy enough to use.. basically a semi-ridgid suspension.
That's why all the WUSSIE "fast" drag racers out west like to race at Dumont so they don't have to run through the Glamis whoops and include suspension and rider ability in the equation....
I ran a no link setup with a +9 swingarm back in '10 on my hillshooter/drag bike.This is a more demanding situation where you actually need the bike to go through the whoops at high speed(working suspension)....After respring and 4 attempts at revalving/riding/testing/revalving and so on...I had an acceptable ride but not great.
I now have Much more appreciation for the Factory setups and see why they use linkage type geometry on the rear. My current setups are modeled after the Raptor 700...structurally its a great fit but does require detailed fabrication. I have a +4", +6", +9", +10" modified this way. I am EXTREMELY happy with handling and confident there will be no breakage issues.
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The cushion lever helps in the whoops. But for a drag bike, it's probably not needed. For trail riding, if you have a good compliant shock & spring combo, you might not need it there either.
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PCS I'm planning on using motoman's engineering skills and programs to find out where I can lose material and not lose strength. A lot like what Brian said, is a no link rear suspension better than the full floater cushion lever design?
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You can cut out the upper & lower aluminum plates on the stock swingarm to cut weight. Then use square aluminum tubing to extend it to the desired length. You might also be able to fab up a shock mount to do away with the cushion lever.
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How do you plan on making the stock aluminum swinger longer, stronger, and still lighter than the original design
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Brian I'm eventually planning on a plus 4" will probably strengthen and lighten an extend my stock swinger though or another stock swinger.
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Does the same apply to the front a arms?
no because that transfers weight forward, which in turn tranfers more force down on the rear whels.
think of it list this: Put your arm flat on a table (with your elbow down). try and raise your hand with your elbow still on the table. Now add weight/pressure to your hand and pick your arm up again (pivoting on your elbow that is still on the table). You'll feel more pressure on your elbow this time.
i think i may have messed up explaining that but maybe you'll get the jist lol
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Does the same apply to the front a arms?
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So what's a good length to run with a 75HP motor?
+4"
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ive heard from some racers that the longer your swingarm the less traction you have at the rear wheels because you are moving them out from under you. thats why most hard core drag bikes are stretched out the front,,,, i would say +2 IF you HAVE to and a wheelie bar. A proper wheelie bar that compliments the geometry of the rear suspension
x2 have heard the same thing.
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I would do a +4 for the 75hp, and a revalved rear shock for the swing arm. Imo the link on the zilla is too close to the swing arm pivot and you are left with lots of leverage against it, especially when u extend the swing arm. Look at a trx250r or banshee, they have a longer link and the rear shock is more centered on the swing arm. Similar with all new 450 quads as well.
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ive heard from some racers that the longer your swingarm the less traction you have at the rear wheels because you are moving them out from under you. thats why most hard core drag bikes are stretched out the front,,,, i would say +2 IF you HAVE to and a wheelie bar. A proper wheelie bar that compliments the geometry of the rear suspension
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So what's a good length to run with a 75HP motor?
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Running a shock linkage or a no link also makes a difference in leverage as well.
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+4-+6 to me is plenty for a drag bike just run a wheelie bar too.
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Stick with a stock swinger or an aftermarket one. Large amounts of stress on the pivot, linkage and frame once you start going longer. Don't get me wrong, you can jump a little. I will get a little air here and there with my duner(+6). Nothing huge though.
The +12 on my 1100 is there to keep the nose down. Which it has. I can launch with it at @ 8,000 and it will just carry the nose perfectly. Most of the time it just feels light. Not even coming off the ground. As I get even more comfortable with the bike and setup, I can only imagine the front end being carried about 6" off the ground.
Just understand that a +12 is a huge arm. Might be overkill for a 500 dragbike regardless.
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A long swing arm would have to be very beefy to withstand the forces associated with getting a lot of air. A stock length swing arm would be better for jumping.
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So if I wanted to jump some big air safely, I might be better off with stock than the extended swingarm?
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PCS,
Yes it is a 40mm Banshee setup. LoneStar axle and hubs. If you want more pics let me know.
No the extended swinger does not allow for more air. It puts a ton more force and leverage on the pivot. My duner with a +6 runs linkage. The +12 hillshooter doesn't. Way to much leverage once you get past the linkage.
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Big jumps regulated by your thumb and your huevos.
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Does the extended swingarm allow you to make bigger jumps if you are playing in the sand?
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Are u running a banshee carrier with a banshee lone star axle set up in that swinger?
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Curious what you ended up doing? Any pics?
Just a heads up if you haven't. +12 is a lot of swinger. A LOT!!! I have run 6,8,10 overs. The +12 is under my bike with the 1100 in it. Little different setup. I would stick with 6-8. no more. Just my $0.02...
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When I talked to him about building me a swinger, I told him what I wanted to do with it. I sent him a stock swinger to build the jig from. He can build them drag lite or ??? Great guy to work with. Prices on the website (very good pricing). He also does custom work. Yes he builds swingers for other bikes as well.
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NICE!!!! I Need that
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Here is pics of my +12 from Proformance Protoypes. Awesome swinger in my opinion. Super lighweight and Strong!!!
Do you know if they do other types of swingers like one for woods climbing? Also for different quads? Maybe would they even be interested in putting different carrier in swingarms for different quads..
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Man that's nice
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Here is pics of my +12 from Proformance Protoypes. Awesome swinger in my opinion. Super lighweight and Strong!!!
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LOL! , I Will make an Update video one month.
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Starpuss what's been going on with your zilla? Following it on YouTube but been a dead build for 6 or 8 months.
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If you get one made Post some Pic's I am also going to run a +12"
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That is a long swinger.
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Metaltech, SLC, or Proformance Prototypes all make custom swingers for both zillas and 250's
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I'm looking for a +12 swingarm for my 87 zilla, who and where can I find one?