Suzuki Quadracer HQ

LT500R Quadracer => LT500R- Exhaust => Topic started by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 04:32:14 pm


Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Cunningham_821 on April 28, 2013, 07:15:48 pm
they always run the big bikes after they just drag it. but yea sorry dez Hi^ buck im gonna make a seperate thread would like to see some 500's u can always tell who the 500 guys are they flock around my conopy/pit lol
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 28, 2013, 06:31:51 pm
Definitely looks like a trip I can plan on making. That track always so loose?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Cunningham_821 on April 28, 2013, 05:19:06 pm
yes. was there saturday at the test and tune checking out the competition lol! was actually more bikes there then quads its worth the trip just to watch the bikes!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BejnrIKdc-8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 28, 2013, 04:22:14 am
buckeye im close to pittsburgh but my bikes in pieces atm waiting for wcr wit my tranny. Dez ure bike looks great! Im curious bout your shocks? i wanna start working on my 90 just build a nice plush rider how do they work they look like 450r?

Well I did say when my bike was together I'd make the trip. Maybe sometime over the summer? I'd like to check out bbdr. Do they allow motorcycles to drag their too? My brother is putting finishing touches on his buell xb9r.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 11:12:55 pm
Hey thanks!

Yeah they are trx450r, they work well for the Zilla actually, I have them preloaded about 1/4" and the clickers all on full soft atm. The arms are +1" wider +1" forward w/z400 spindles from metal tech, full droop its 50" wide. Mr. C your another guy with some killer stuff going on... I always check out the pics of yer rides
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Cunningham_821 on April 27, 2013, 10:19:52 pm
buckeye im close to pittsburgh but my bikes in pieces atm waiting for wcr wit my tranny. Dez ure bike looks great! Im curious bout your shocks? i wanna start working on my 90 just build a nice plush rider how do they work they look like 450r?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: QuadMan8 on April 27, 2013, 09:59:14 pm
Yah but Im a heavy giant so i figured my frame gets a workout and could use gussets---and let be honest-- they just  look cool  :))
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 09:43:49 pm
Well at least you're getting closer come Monday! I chose not to gusset my frame before powder hope that doesn't bite me in the keester down the road. And I feel yah on the slow build thing my problem is I work way to effing much!! Gotta stop volunteering to pick up Saturdays after 65 hours Monday-Friday.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: QuadMan8 on April 27, 2013, 09:22:13 pm
HAY buckeye--Ive been off the site for 2 days and missed all the fun  :))   To answer your question my frame is still at the power coaters but will all be done monday.  The frame gusseting after the beed blast slowed things up.  Im afraid my build will be slow as I have to get my yard landscaping in before it gets hot. I know, I know..landscaping over zilla build---my prioraties are all screwed up.--mike

Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: LT250RWV on April 27, 2013, 09:12:00 pm
I hear on crazy work time.  Yes everyone has a opinion to. I have had parts come back screwed up because their was a problem and the company just half assed it so they would get paid. I had nothing but problems with my quad since. I paid for their port job that was one of the best they said. Just to say my bike has run like junk ever since. So i just had to pay another 500$ just to start fresh form their mess ups. They were alot cheaper then the builders were talking about.In no means am I saying your builders isnt good or is going to screw you over. This just one of my experience  I was trying to save a buck and got the shaft big time. I got 2 builders now that i will have do my work that i can't do myself.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 09:05:33 pm
You know what I plan on doing in the future is getting a second 88 cylinder and sending it out to Jerry for a port job similar to the one I'm having done now, well his version of it at least. Then dyno'ing the two different cylinders so I can really see if there's a drastic difference. Wouldn't all you "3x the price is worth it guys" just poo your pants if it ended up being on the lower side of the two?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 08:55:40 pm
Alky its all in fun man. You're a lot more established in your life than I am I'm just getting started. I was fishing for a rise out of you and I got it. Haha  (Y) +k2

And trust me I'm not riled up at all I just apparently have a very condescending Internet forum tone as I've been told many times I have a very condescending tone in my real life personal interactions. Guess it comes with who I am. I'm really only being half serious though. Jerry was the first person I called when I got my Zilla before I joined any forum or even picked my bike up. I made that call because its easy to see he's very well respected and superbly defended by his customers and supporters when somebody questions anything he does. You raced three people on that video and the young guy won haha remember that!  -->
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 08:46:15 pm
250WV the timeline I was quoted was totally fine with me as work is cranking with 60-80 hrs a week and I still don't have my roller together as a result. So paying triple the money to have parts sitting on my motor sitting on a workbench would've been a big waste of money. Not everyone's time line is the same just as not everyone has the same opinions, embrace that its what makes us human. I can respect your need to have your stuff yesterday I'm pretty much the most impatient person I know but I also knew going into selecting a builder a week turn around time wasn't a necessity because of my work schedule getting crazy.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Alkyzilla on April 27, 2013, 08:44:05 pm
Hey Bucky!.... Geez I knew you would get riled up at me saying that..  -->.but hey your young and can take it. !!!
 Yes.. at my age I just kick*** and get the job done.  The guy I raced is my age too..the reason one race was enough is because at our age and level of experience there was no question who had the fastest machine.

I do enjoy your enthusiasm,..Oh and let me share something else most of us old dogs who have been around these builders know.....Yes..  Jerry Hall does himself port every cylinder that goes thru his shop.
He and his brother Kenny do every bit of fab and machine work...its called Extreme quality control.

 Best of luck with your build. Hope you get riding soon!
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: LT250RWV on April 27, 2013, 08:40:22 pm
Im going to say this one thing if you paid 3 times more your motor would have already been back to you. So for someone like me who hates to wait forever to get my toys fixed or upgraded. The extra money well worth it to me. You want the best you have to pay for the best.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: WestTexasKing on April 27, 2013, 08:29:54 pm
This is the thread that never dies, it's a parasite that lives off new threads, kills them and assimilates their bodies, then spreads more parasites to other threads.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 08:03:19 pm
Buck, dude you need to lighten up abit. Try to inject some humor into our site. Your Zilla is going to be bad ass we know... Shouldn't you be dialing in the 500 now?

Dez you're right I need to lighten up. I had a chitty day at work today and I took it out on poor old Dale. Well shitty day at work coupled with a dinner of lobster and crab that I'm pretty sure isn't going to stay down tonight. And please don't patronize me, my Zilla is going to be a low budget first build and will get better over the next few years as I make upgrades to different stuff that just isn't in the budget right now. And I'll be wrenching on it tomorrow. Btw your bike looks really slick and I agree with Bret your rear suspension seems to be sitting really high. Glad your investment put a smile on your face man that's what it's really about hell we can't take it with us I just wish I had more.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Zilla273 on April 27, 2013, 07:49:11 pm
also u can have the best machine shop in the world... port work isnt machine work
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 07:47:44 pm
Buck, dude you need to lighten up abit. Try to inject some humor into our site. Your Zilla is going to be bad ass we know... Shouldn't you be dialing in the 500 now?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Zilla273 on April 27, 2013, 07:42:38 pm
there is so many things involved with porting, how can anyone talk as if its all almost the same??? are u thinkin 2 and 4 strokes porting is the same???
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 06:55:44 pm
Good to know that machinists in dales book just go crazy with grinding tools and carbides on a cylinder with no pre determined design or end result in mind aka a template. So what dale is saying is that Jerry personally ports every single cylinder that comes into his shop. That's amazing! It's really to bad that you'll never see me at a strip or hill dale cause I'm literally 2 months into working on a Zilla and I've only seen you ride one hill run (which you lost to a banshee) and I know I could easily hop on a bike that was equal to whatever you were riding and out ride you on a hill, a strip, a trail, or a street hell for that matter the bikes wouldn't even have to be equal just similarly matched. It's guys like you that amuse the **** out of me spend all this money think you're a big badass on 4 wheels and can easily get out ridden by someone half you're age who has probably twice the seat time on a bike as you do. It's so freaking hilarious how upset my opinions can get grown men and get such a rise out of you guys that you feel the need to mock or make fun of me like you're in the cafeteria in 8th grade. Hilarious to say the least.

Oh and Cunningham told me to trek over to pa to take a few runs on his HPR drag Zilla and I responded that it was completely doable for me to do that and nothing... You guys act as though I'm lighting Jesus himself on fire because my opinion isn't the same as yours is. Or because I can't justify spending 3 times the amount for port and machine work that is done by an employee of HPR based off of a port design template. Do all builders have the same templates no and I never said that but the general principles of porting a cylinder are the same no matter who you are. If you're a decent machine shop you're probably capable of the same thing as any other machine shop if you have the proper tooling and experience.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 06:24:39 pm
I think everyone should quit picking on poor Buckeye513...He has already figured out on his own that every builder uses the same "port template" and that the workmanship part is not relevant, its all cookie cutter stuff...and a ugly pipe is just a ugly pipe!     Leave him be!  Like I said...he will always be good for a chuckle at the Hill or a Drag strip.

Dang I should be going to the kitchen utensil store for my newest porting job! Can my ole lady's hand mixer run a carbide cutting bit?!? What's the best - Christmas cookie port or cake decoration porting?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Alkyzilla on April 27, 2013, 05:52:50 pm
I think everyone should quit picking on poor Buckeye513...He has already figured out on his own that every builder uses the same "port template" and that the workmanship part is not relevant, its all cookie cutter stuff...and a ugly pipe is just a ugly pipe!     Leave him be!  Like I said...he will always be good for a chuckle at the Hill or a Drag strip.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Zilla273 on April 27, 2013, 01:49:55 pm
its on youtube man, its one of the vids when he 1rst gets it done, he mentions running twin carbs, said one of his new marvin front shocks is leaking etc,
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 27, 2013, 12:57:51 pm
I'm betting man, to say if we were to re-do the dyno testing again with a Matt Sheare's ported LT500 engine and pipe combo we might have seen some different graphs, and this is the point I want to  make about each builder has there own recipe they use to build an engine (Pipe, Porting, Head, Carb,Clutch), change one thing and the end results will differ, the graph testing we did was to use a average 90s type of porting with pipes, and used Dales HPR Dunner Ported quad, the results were not for bashing, only to see the graphs from each pipe effect on each engine, the results are what they are. 
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 12:36:44 pm
Where's the video with that claim at? And I agree I think they should run again. I thought they should run 5 or 6 times that day in dumont.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 12:02:06 pm
I agree there needs to be another race off...
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 27, 2013, 11:48:36 am
Sounds like a rematch to me..............
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Zilla273 on April 27, 2013, 11:12:19 am
Jerry's port work is more $ because he has a better layout, plain and simple. Also Q claimed in his youtube video that Z hybrid he raced had 12hp more then any other zilla related bike on some particular dyno he ran it on. Well if he had 12hp more then that HPR zilla i seen in that vid, it's frame must be full of lead.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 27, 2013, 10:53:00 am
Buckeye here's the simple answer......Jerry's work is more expensive because it's worth it!!!

To elaborate, I can not tell you how many friends and people I know who've pay big money to "have their motor done" by some builder and one or more of the following happens:

1) the motor comes back and runs 2 miles and it breaks (usually due to builder "forgetting" to tighten something) destroying your $1,000 cases, $1,500 cylinder, crank, rod, etc...
2) the motor works but not as long as it is suppose to and you have to rebuild it again
3) the motor works but parts are not machined correctly and you have to pay twice to have it done again, correctly this time
4) the motor does not perform like it was advertised or promoted to (it perpetually "needs to be tuned")
5) you get the motor back but you find out it's not the parts you sent in and or or good parts some how disappeared on their own and nobody knows $hit
6) you get your motor or parts back and their done wrong
7) you get you motor or parts back 9 to 36 months later
8) the builder does not warranty their work against defects in workmanship or stupidity on their part
9) you can reach the builder but their dog ate the cylinder (fill in excuse here) and your motor or parts never materialize
10) your motor/parts never come back, got lost in shipping, the "builder" stops answering YOUR calls and you have to enlist local buddies to pay them a "friendly" visit to secure your parts if they can even find them
11) you send your parts and pay the builder the money and are never able to reach them again, you donated parts & money to their next project.
12) the builder goes down in a ball of flames and does number 11 to a whole group of people


I'm sure I could go on here but you should be able to get the point......when I send Jerry my stuff it comes back quickly, done and done right, if I have questions I can call him, it performs as advertised and it there is an issue I get a phone call to figure out what needs to be done to fix it right instead of getting no call and receiving some slobbed together piece of crap they tried to make work that breaks on my second trip that I spent $500 to take and costing me thousands in parts and labor to have it redone right.

#06 took 18 months, #04 Made Less HP after than before!
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 10:46:13 am
It does sit abit high... I'll look into that.

Thanks for all the complements, it's been 10 months to get to this point. Yeah I still have a grin from testing

I have to say again, I should have bought a Zilla a long time ago. I got the ltr450 and never ride it.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Glamisrider on April 27, 2013, 10:44:02 am
Hey Dez, is your cushion lever in upside down, the bike looks a bit high.

BTW NICE BIKE and by now I'm sure you're already in love with your HPR19   +k2
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Glamisrider on April 27, 2013, 10:35:20 am
Buckeye here's the simple answer......Jerry's work is more expensive because it's worth it!!!

To elaborate, I can not tell you how many friends and people I know who've pay big money to "have their motor done" by some builder and one or more of the following happens:

1) the motor comes back and runs 2 miles and it breaks (usually due to builder "forgetting" to tighten something) destroying your $1,000 cases, $1,500 cylinder, crank, rod, etc...
2) the motor works but not as long as it is suppose to and you have to rebuild it again
3) the motor works but parts are not machined correctly and you have to pay twice to have it done again, correctly this time
4) the motor does not perform like it was advertised or promoted to (it perpetually "needs to be tuned")
5) you get the motor back but you find out it's not the parts you sent in and or or good parts some how disappeared on their own and nobody knows $hit
6) you get your motor or parts back and their done wrong
7) you get you motor or parts back 9 to 36 months later
8) the builder does not warranty their work against defects in workmanship or stupidity on their part
9) you can reach the builder but their dog ate the cylinder (fill in excuse here) and your motor or parts never materialize
10) your motor/parts never come back, got lost in shipping, the "builder" stops answering YOUR calls and you have to enlist local buddies to pay them a "friendly" visit to secure your parts if they can even find them
11) you send your parts and pay the builder the money and are never able to reach them again, you donated parts & money to their next project.
12) the builder goes down in a ball of flames and does number 11 to a whole group of people


I'm sure I could go on here but you should be able to get the point......when I send Jerry my stuff it comes back quickly, done and done right, if I have questions I can call him, it performs as advertised and it there is an issue I get a phone call to figure out what needs to be done to fix it right instead of getting no call and receiving some slobbed together piece of crap they tried to make work that breaks on my second trip that I spent $500 to take and costing me thousands in parts and labor to have it redone right.



Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: LT250RWV on April 27, 2013, 10:33:43 am
The pipe run the best raw. .Shearer doesnt run any finish on his personal pipes for his quads.  If i made a pipe i dont think i would stamp it. Let people guess what just flew by them. + The stamping cost a alot of money. I know one  pipe  maker told me they had over 8,000$ in stamping lost in the mail. P.s Dez your quad looks great.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 10:30:05 am
Sure thing Mitch

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/Dezsled/image-8.jpg)
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 27, 2013, 10:23:37 am
Mike, put that pic in the LT500 gallery !

 Going from old (90s porting, FMF Pipes) to the new ( Q-V-1 V-2 HPR-19 DCS-5) is all up to the consumers wants and budget, any of the pipes mentioned are waking up new found performance in the LT500 world, remember the pipe is one time purchase from $500 to $1000 for great performance, you guys crack me up on this pipe cost controversy,  Wanna **** about cost lets get into shock cost!
$750 to $2000 for front shock!  Com On thats not even costing out the rear shock !

Dang it I want PEPS $2800
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 27, 2013, 10:20:24 am
I guarantee that you won't worry about the cost of Jerry's  products once you ride it.... It's like having a steak after living off fast food!

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/Dezsled/image-7.jpg)

I forgot I regeared 13x42, when I rode it around my house. Fourth gear wheelies!?!
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 09:22:53 am
Finally some good answers instead of combative don't like it shut up type answers. Thanks for the insight 250rWV and Mitch. And again I completely understand the cost of the hpr19 and I don't think it's over priced per say given its competitions price point. I was just expressing my opinion that for that much it'd be nice if it were at least plated. The stamped thing I understand maybe Jerry could work with Shearer to get it stamped out.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 27, 2013, 08:47:24 am
The reason for the price being way higher is because people will pay for it.
True, but Jerry wrote it out once, he is not a fast food engine builder, he is a high performance LT500 Specialist (and other makes also) no one is forcing anyone to buy his products, he backs his work and products with fantastic customer service and dyno testing and testing and testing on these 25 year quads.
I can tell you for certain, no one is building a retiring fund on selling pipes for the LT500s.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: LT250RWV on April 27, 2013, 08:05:54 am
1 thing wasn"t said about Hpr, is service in all of this. Is his customer service and how he will go the extra mile to help you out. Im willing to pay extra money for someone who will sit on the phone help you figure out your problem with your quad. Well worth the money you spend for his parts  and quick turn around time also. Beside of all that i like the raw look of the hpr19 or like West Texas idea to make it look  blue like in gun metal. I didnt know about the baking chrome for the pipes. This is why i like this site you learn something new everyday.























Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 06:50:26 am
This^^ finally someone without builder envy and logic breaks it down. The premium price for the pipe I understand as the competition isn't much cheaper at all. It's the machine work cost that boggles my mind as there's only so much gain to be had from a port job and the majority of machinist use templates anyway so a port job is a port job is a port job basically.

PS what are you waiting on from powder coat? I'm waiting on ball joints and cushion arm bearings from Jason then its roller time.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: QuadMan8 on April 27, 2013, 05:57:20 am
Marketing 101-- If you have a premium product you can charge and get a premium price.  if you product is percieved to be one of the best you can charge a much higher price (to a point of course).  If your product is just 5 % better than the compeition you can charge a disproportionate amount more--say 200% even though its only say 5% better.    IF people were not actually paying his prices for a pipe or port job than I guarantee you he either would have lowered the price or said, " I cant make any profit at this lower price, so I'll just stop selling them>

So to answer the question why---as said earlier,-- because he can, meaning because people are paying him that amount.

PS...MY POWDER COATER IS SLOWER THAN H%$*.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 27, 2013, 04:14:06 am
The original thought of the thread was look two pipes not what coating should go on them. Some people are so sensitive on this forum it's funny. I haven't been going on and on about the cost of the HPR 19 I did go on and on about a quote for machine work triple what other quotes were. The only logical answer anyone provided was the price of that was so high because people pay it. Nobody has explained why the cost of that work is so expensive based on some drastic difference or power gain potential that justifies the cost.

The 19 is a grand that's awesome I'd love to buy one and probably will in a season or two. All I'm saying regarding the 19 is that I'd be a lot quicker to come off a grand for a pipe if it were plated and stamped. That's my personal opinion and preference you don't like it don't comment about it. But don't try to tell someone to stay on topic in a thread that started with 0 topic.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Duneatic70 on April 26, 2013, 11:22:20 pm
If you think it should be plated & dont want to pay top dollar for hpr19 then buy a pipe that plated for a grand form somebody else & get over it!!!!!!!!!! The high price of a TOP NOTCH BUILDER comes from the EXTENSIVE testing & redoing it to make it perfection!!! You dont wanna pay for it dont buy it & contiue going on & on & on about why you think it should be plated or stamped for the cost of the pipe!!!! Obviously jerry can & will produce a great pipe & knows that it will out perform all others pipes!!! Now can we please get back to the origional thought of this thread of WHAT TYPE OF COATING THE OWNER WISHES TO PUT ON HIS PIPE & HOW EACH COATING WILL CHANGE. HOW THE POWER IS DEVELOPED IN THE PIPE!!
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 08:11:54 pm
I'm not stuck on the price of the hpr19 I understand that. I think for that much it should come stamped or plated but that's my opinion. I didn't get a deal on a Q pipe I paid market value for a used Q v1 pipe.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 26, 2013, 06:31:05 pm
It cool, you were just stuck on the $$$ HPR products costs. That's not the point, there are many others that are looking for a proven product.

I can totally relate to scoring on a killer deal as you did on your Q V1. I paid almost what you did for the DCS 4.



Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Zilla273 on April 26, 2013, 05:49:00 pm
yeah the x19 is on the $$$ side, but its just like anything else in this world, u get what u pay for, i had the aaen before, it was almost unreal how much harder my bike pulled with just the pipe swap 2c
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 05:36:34 pm
Sorry Dez. Thanks moto for a logical answer.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 26, 2013, 03:58:25 pm
Buck you need to go start your own thread and quit muddying up this one.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Motoman991 on April 26, 2013, 03:51:01 pm
The reason for the price being way higher is because people will pay for it.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 03:19:06 pm
Because still nobody has answered my question. Performance costs money I know like I said earlier usually the guy with the deepest pockets wins but not always and I've been on the winning side of that battle more times than I should have been if its all about how much money you throw at a machine.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 26, 2013, 03:13:21 pm
Dude your going on over and over like a broken recod.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 02:52:47 pm
I saw one race and one bike length win and a line get cut off once a length was taken. If your basis for anything regarding racing is based on the outcome of one race than your perception is misguided to say the least. I also saw one bike have ten pattle haulers and the other have sand skate 2's and in one video could hear people commenting on Q's tire selection and that they couldn't believe he was running that tire. Ill say it again I don't doubt Jerry's knowledge or ability I would just like someone to justify paying 3 times as much for something when there's only so much a port job can do for performance gains and only so much that can be done in regards to porting. And who's to say they run that race 10 times Q doesn't win 4-6 of them its not like Dale won by 8 lengths or something.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 26, 2013, 02:23:24 pm
If you didn't see the dumont dunes showdown videos you should go have a look. The answer is in the vids... You have seen them right?

Performance costs money, how fast do you want to go?

Thanks for the tip Dale, I knew it needed to be cleansed but didn't know a radiator shop could do it.

Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 12:15:35 pm
I completely agree with what you're saying Mitch I'd still for $1000 want a stamped not coned pipe and for it to be plated. I would love to own a HPR#19 pipe but I just don't have $1075.00 for the pipe and ride plus $150-200 to get up plated in nickel. I have $575 in my v1 Q pipe and its already plated. So 50% of the cost and 5500 rpm is great but in a drag race you're never at 5500 if you are you're on the losing lane anyway no matter what pipe you have. You mention porting my port work bore head work and carb bore is 1/3rd the cost of what HPR quoted me is there really 2/3rds more power potential from a port job? So say my port job gets me 65hp with my q pipe would Jerry's port job get me 85 or more? Because that's what the cost suggests.

These are the guys I love to pull up next to at the Hill....!!  :)) :)) :)) +k2



Hey Dez.. Keep in mind if you want to plate it down the road you will have to have it Hot Tanked and made really clean again at a radiator shop or someplace like that.  No plater will put it in their chemical tank after its been run.


I still haven't gotten one hint of an answer as to what's so special about a port job that makes it 3 times more expensive than another port job. The majority of port jobs are done off templates so one is basically identical to the next from my understanding of good machine port work.

I used to work for a company that would charge three times as much as pretty much everyone else for basically the same thing. Got away with it because they marketed toward low income poorly educated demographics. They go into the smarter more high priced high class parts of town and get laughed out the front door. This is the reasoning for my questioning not taking a shot at Jerry or anyone who uses him. Like I said before would love to have had him do my work his price was just way to rich for my blood. So mock me all you want but generally speaking it usually is the guy with the deepest pockets that is the fastest up the hill or down the strip. But then again I've walked many extremely expensive built drag bikes on my dads mildly built kfx400.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Alkyzilla on April 26, 2013, 11:43:10 am
I completely agree with what you're saying Mitch I'd still for $1000 want a stamped not coned pipe and for it to be plated. I would love to own a HPR#19 pipe but I just don't have $1075.00 for the pipe and ride plus $150-200 to get up plated in nickel. I have $575 in my v1 Q pipe and its already plated. So 50% of the cost and 5500 rpm is great but in a drag race you're never at 5500 if you are you're on the losing lane anyway no matter what pipe you have. You mention porting my port work bore head work and carb bore is 1/3rd the cost of what HPR quoted me is there really 2/3rds more power potential from a port job? So say my port job gets me 65hp with my q pipe would Jerry's port job get me 85 or more? Because that's what the cost suggests.




   These are the guys I love to pull up next to at the Hill....!!  :)) :)) :)) +k2



Hey Dez.. Keep in mind if you want to plate it down the road you will have to have it Hot Tanked and made really clean again at a radiator shop or someplace like that.  No plater will put it in their chemical tank after its been run.


Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 26, 2013, 09:40:58 am
Nice insight into what it takes to fab up a cone pipe.  +k2

I like the old school look of coned pipes...
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 26, 2013, 09:22:54 am
Some idea of the work on a coned pipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9n6do0__Rs
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 26, 2013, 09:15:11 am
To make a stamped pipes you need the stamping templates, they run from $2500 to $5000 depending where you go, and this is an out of pocket up front expense.................. I really dont see that many LT500 pipes being sold to cover the cost.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 09:01:50 am
Cunningham what part of PA? I have family in Pittsburgh if you're not far I'd definitely make the trip and bring my bike as well once its done in the next few weeks. And don't take what I'm saying the wrong way I definitely appreciate Jerry's knowledge and experience. I just don't know what one port job to the next could make it worth almost triple the money there's only so much you can do to intake and exhaust ports.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Cunningham_821 on April 26, 2013, 08:53:17 am
buckeye make a trip to pa. ill let you make some runs on my bike. after your done wiping the poop from your britches you'll understand you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 08:02:22 am
Absolutely it's big dog on the block or king of the hill. And congrats on two of them I thought you only had one Zilla though.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 26, 2013, 07:48:00 am
Might keep it bare for a while, but either way that pipe is the top performer right now.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 07:39:23 am
I completely agree with what you're saying Mitch I'd still for $1000 want a stamped not coned pipe and for it to be plated. I would love to own a HPR#19 pipe but I just don't have $1075.00 for the pipe and ride plus $150-200 to get up plated in nickel. I have $575 in my v1 Q pipe and its already plated. So 50% of the cost and 5500 rpm is great but in a drag race you're never at 5500 if you are you're on the losing lane anyway no matter what pipe you have. You mention porting my port work bore head work and carb bore is 1/3rd the cost of what HPR quoted me is there really 2/3rds more power potential from a port job? So say my port job gets me 65hp with my q pipe would Jerry's port job get me 85 or more? Because that's what the cost suggests.

Dez I'd look into that blue coating that westtex was talking about be slick to have a black chrome gun metal finish.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 26, 2013, 07:18:05 am
Buckeye go back and look at the graphs again, On Dales Quad, the HPR19 just at 5500 rpm was making 10 hp more than the V1, and 4-5 hp more than the V2 across the curve, it was peak hp where they were 2 hp apart, those test set fire to my azz to get the DCS-5 to get close to those numbers.
HPR19 is a work of art, you have to understand metal fabrication to appreciate the craftsmanship and detail on this exhaust system, In the beginning back in 2010 I used to say the same thing $1000 for a pipe, and was leery due to the testing back then seemed very biased against Q , but seeing the the graphs on a ATV Dyno its all about respect to Mr Hall, the V2 will be hitting $900 I hear when the next batch comes out, When you really think about it the pipe is the most major item the LT500 needs  other than porting.

 
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 26, 2013, 03:26:01 am
1 grand for a exhaust!?  Good god.

Yeah but... You seen the dumont dunes videos. You gotta pay to play!


$1000 still boggles my mind for that much you'd think it'd be stamped or at least nickel plated. Not saying I don't want one just that its a huge cost for something that on Dale's bike on a dyno made only 2 more horses than my v1 Q pipe and redlined 600-700 rpms sooner.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: WestTexasKing on April 26, 2013, 01:00:00 am
Give it a high gloss blue finish!
Have someone polish it up, then using the same bluing process that gunsmiths use, you could have a shiny black pipe that looks like black chrome.
Posted a thread on the old forum, but it's worth bringing up again.
The bluing process is corrosion resistant, and by itself will resist rust much better than wiping the pipe down with oil.
However, due to the nature of the finish, it will actually absorb and hold oil...so if you wipe it down with oil, it'll have even better resistance to rust and you won't have to do it as often.




Think about how your pipe would look with this finish:



(http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/pythonblue4.jpg)


Or go with a niter bluing and really have a unique finish on your pipe:


(http://www.fototime.com/0020BB3C70818E6/orig.jpg)


(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8396/aniumnecker4005.jpg)


Depending on how the pipe takes to the niter bluing process, you might end up with something like this:


(http://www.powleyengraving.com/USFA45Colt_copy.jpg)


If it ends up like that, you will be required to add some leather saddlebags, longhorn handlebars, Winchester rifle holster, and cover your seat in this material:


(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/593444841/Arne-Jacobsen-egg-font-b-chair-b-font-with-tilting-function-in-font-b-Cowhide-b.jpg_250x250.jpg)


Oh, and spurs.
You'll need spurs on your riding boots.
Bonus points if you wear a helt-pro:
http://www.helt-pro.com/en/Landingpages/Cowboy-hat-butch.html (http://www.helt-pro.com/en/Landingpages/Cowboy-hat-butch.html)
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Cunningham_821 on April 26, 2013, 12:02:35 am
1 grand for a exhaust!?  Good god.

after seeing the pipe and knowing the amount of time involved in making them i dont think jerrys getting rich on making pipe... dez keep it raw bud makes it look tough as hell plus that cratsmanship i couldnt bring myself to coat mine i just wipe it down with wd-40 after rides or tranny fluid if its gonna sit a while.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 11:31:39 pm
My oven isn't big enuff, so ill have settle with getting baked myself  +k2
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: WestTexasKing on April 25, 2013, 11:27:54 pm
I've had a few important aircraft parts chromed, and its been my experience that as long as you specify in the order you want the parts baked, they'll usually do it at no additional charge.
Any reputable plating shop should have the capacity to bake parts, otherwise I wouldn't bother with them.
The oven gives the chrome a barely perceptible straw color, so you know if they actually baked it or not.


These guys have always done excellent work for me, but they don't accept decorative chrome:
http://vmplating.com/ (http://vmplating.com/)

With that in mind, you might check with these guys:
http://www.barryavenueplating.com/ (http://www.barryavenueplating.com/)
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on April 25, 2013, 10:45:19 pm
...or bake the pipe at 375F within an hour of the plating process for a minimum of 3hrs to remove all hydrogen embrittlement.

I know that but how many platers will bake it for you or call you when the plating is about done .........so that you can be at the plater waitng for the plating process to finish................. so that you can rush home and bake it?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: WestTexasKing on April 25, 2013, 10:29:19 pm
...or bake the pipe at 375F within an hour of the plating process for a minimum of 3hrs to remove all hydrogen embrittlement.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: STARPUSS on April 25, 2013, 10:16:10 pm
Be RedNeck , Paint it flat black and have it done~!!

That's the way I want mine!!
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on April 25, 2013, 09:23:44 pm
Chrome pipes typically have more cracking problems than pipes that are nickel plated.  Hydrogen embrittlement often occurs at the interface of the chrome and steel pipe body. 
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 09:03:43 pm
1 grand for a exhaust!?  Good god.

Yeah but... You seen the dumont dunes videos. You gotta pay to play!

Yeah Im thinking nickel or chrome.... But I'm gonna try the mo fo out first!

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/Dezsled/image.jpg)

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/Dezsled/image-6.jpg)
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Motoman991 on April 25, 2013, 08:24:32 pm
1 grand for a exhaust!?  Good god.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: GrkGuy on April 25, 2013, 08:21:52 pm
nickle turns yellow, chrome is the only way to go.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: BadMoonRacing500 on April 25, 2013, 08:20:45 pm
Not a fan of ceramic  coating on 2 stroke pipes, 4 strokes yes, I like Nickel over Chrome, just seems more durable, less peeling, over bluing, and easier to polish the finish when dulled from use, Nickel does not blue, goes beige/brown and polishes out.
just my $.02
This..... ceramic holds a lot of heat in the pipe,Good on a 4 stroke not so much with a 2 stroke. If the pipe was designed as raw a pipe as the #19 is, it will change the way the pipe acts. Jerry did a write up about it either here or the old site. I'd go nickel or chrome.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Mitch Keller on April 25, 2013, 07:12:01 pm
Not a fan of ceramic  coating on 2 stroke pipes, 4 strokes yes, I like Nickel over Chrome, just seems more durable, less peeling, over bluing, and easier to polish the finish when dulled from use, Nickel does not blue, goes beige/brown and polishes out.
just my $.02
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 07:09:48 pm
Thanks for your input Brian. That's what I needed to hear...not much difference. Sweet
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: El Diablo on April 25, 2013, 07:06:26 pm
My #19 is ceramic coated & has stood up well to the sand blasting nature of the dunes. As far as changing performance goes, my butt dyno is not that accurate so I can't really tell.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 07:03:51 pm
Yeah ... I seen the #20 on the dyno a couple times... (Y)
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 25, 2013, 06:49:47 pm
Dale's chromed HPR#20's look damn good I'm a sucker for that bling on a 2 stroke pipe though.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 06:40:31 pm
I was told what it does but I forgot already .. Man alzheimers
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 25, 2013, 06:34:47 pm
Simple answer to your question Dez is yes. What type of change it has would only be determined through dyno testing. At least that's what I was told by Mat Shearer.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 06:14:34 pm
Ceramic finish.

I was looking for info on pipe finishes. Does the ceramic coating change the performance characteristics of the pipe?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 06:12:21 pm
I wish I had the mullah you got man I'd love to have one of Jerry's pipes and will someday but ill have to make do with my dinky Q pipe for now. What did you do with your DCS4?

The DCS 4 will be going in for retrofitting to DCS 5 specs.

 
Nice!  How much is one of those pipes?

Jerry is getting $1K per pipe! Plus shipping
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: RustBelt on April 25, 2013, 05:34:59 pm
Ceramic finish.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 25, 2013, 05:30:10 pm
$925 I believe raw plus shipping. So about $1000 to your door moto.
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Motoman991 on April 25, 2013, 05:21:03 pm
Nice!  How much is one of those pipes?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 25, 2013, 05:14:43 pm
I wish I had the mullah you got man I'd love to have one of Jerry's pipes and will someday but ill have to make do with my dinky Q pipe for now. What did you do with your DCS4?
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 04:47:22 pm
2 '87 LT500s

Now to figure out what finish should go on them...

I can't wait till the other parts show up!
Title: Re: Performance x 2!
Post by: Buckeye513 on April 25, 2013, 04:45:47 pm
Crazy what $500 more than my Zilla cost me looks like in 4 pieces of metal on the ground!

Why 2 HPR#19's Dez?
Title: Performance x 2!
Post by: Dezsled on April 25, 2013, 04:32:14 pm
After a few calls to the Man.... Something really sweet shows up!

Thanks Jerry!

Thanks mitch