Suzuki Quadracer HQ
Riding / Racing / Riding Parks => Racing => Topic started by: Rainman56 on February 09, 2013, 06:39:45 pm
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March 22, 23, 24 @ Dumont
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I'm assuming this race never happened.
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folks I split up this topic to the racing section on this, was going off topic
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So if my build is done in time does this mean we can race? I never really got an answer yet?
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First you have to figure out how to get over here :p
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I'M DOWN FOR THAT.
SERIOUSLY.
Tex lets go buddy
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That was pretty random.
Nobody was arguing since your last post.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/KBox/retarded.jpg)
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I'M DOWN FOR THAT.
SERIOUSLY.
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lets all pool our funds and charter the Antonov-An225 (HUGE cargo Plane) and take the whole site down to play on "BIG DADDY or Dune 7" in Namibia-----road trip?
I think that trip will never get crossed off my bucket list.
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Renting a cargo plane large enough to haul a few quads would cost way more than anyone is willing to spend.
Not to mention the fuel cost would probably be no less than $600/hr, traveling from here to Glamis would take 6-8hrs.
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How about it, any one from the East coast want to go watch this.
ROAD TRIP...
I wanting to go but I just don't want to watch everyone having fun
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I think I'll just ride my Zilla all the way out there to watch, set a date so I can get a few week head start >:D
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Ship your bikes on Amtrack. I have a friend who takes him, his wife, and and their goldwings from utah to southern california on Amtrack. They ride up to washington then take the train back.
I think he said it was about 200 or 250 for each leg to ship the big bike, but I am not posative. In most cases, the money saved in fuel by not having to take your thirsty tow rig and being able to drive a more economical car or flying can save the cost of shipping the quad. Worth looking into...
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Seriously, if Cliff could charter a cargo plane we might be able to make this happen.
What would the price be like? I know we spent 1500 on fuel (split 3 ways) when we went out.
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ill meet you at cliffs, john. well fly the rest of the way. we may have to steel a small cargo plane.
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How about it, any one from the East coast want to go watch this.
ROAD TRIP...
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It won't be nothing fancy. But you have a complete hpr optimum setup so I figured it would be a good run. Kind of apples to apples one complete setup against another. Then we can drink beer lol
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Sounds like Matt is going to give you an Optimum engine/pipe setup...thought if it were the V2 I would know about what to expect.
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I could put on there, we are gonna test with one, but the plan was for an out of frame pipe. But the pipe I will be running will be from the same builder as the v2 pipe. I just wanna race the fastest 500 guys is all. Cause my bike is only gonna be a 500 motor and I won't put the over ride in if that's the stipulation.
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don't think so.
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Hey if my bike is done I wanna race it. I'll race your drag Zilla dale. Just don't cry when ya get sand in your face lol jk
Chris you gonna be running a V2 pipe?
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Those Overrides are sweet for strictly drag racing but not so much for a all around quad. I know M&M ATV makes them for the banshee that have a neutral down option which is sweet for the duner guys cause they dont have to worry about down shifting to first fast like a woods rider.
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Dale if RK actually shows up he'll bring the best he has otherwise he won't show if he doesn't think he's going to win. If he does show he'll bring the 450 hybrid with the twin intakes, NOS, and electronic override.
What you should do is 2 races; one with the king of the hill bikes your drag set up his 450 hybrid and the second race actual dune bikes, your duner set up against his beater zilla since those are what most resembles what the average guy rides from either builder.
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Glad I still have my v1.
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hahahah nos!!!!!
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I know how he is.. he'll just switch to nitro methane.
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Talked to Tony at T@N he is in for Dumont!
Tell him NO NOS!
I did, said ....ok but thats no fun.
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Talked to Tony at T@N he is in for Dumont!
Tell him NO NOS!
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hey serg, guess we will find out if you have the girl friend port job. lol
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Did someone say race.... Holly smokes batman.
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I have one in my liger and will be putting one in my alky drag/duner bike. I love it. And you can backload third to. Which is let off the gas in gear. On some trannie set ups thats a big no no. Like 1st and 2nd cant be backloaded. Tranny will have considerable damage to it. This came from Greg Whitaker at WCR who does the overrides. I spoke with him last week about getting another one done.
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HAHAHAHA chris.
An override is when the engagement dogs are machined in a way to where the 1st to 2nd gear and 2nd to 3rd gear do not need the clutch used to switch gears. But will need to be used when shifting from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th. Basically just pin it in 1st gear and shift to 2nd than third with no clutch.
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Talked to Tony at T@N he is in for Dumont!
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Hay I dont want to go off topic but since it was mentioned can someone tell me what is an overide transmission and what does it do..
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Hey if my bike is done I wanna race it. I'll race your drag Zilla dale. Just don't cry when ya get sand in your face lol jk
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Yeah thats what I meant. I wasn't trying to be harsh in any way, JH and RK build the highest level zilla motors I know of...this is an opportunity to bring out the "big guns" and show off a bit, win or lose.
I can put the drag motor in my duner chassis, but i'm gonna flip that thing over! or just use half throttle and V-paddles
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average zilla? who builds an average dune zilla? if you guys have average dune zillas I don't know what to call mine.
dune zilla build in progress?? loll.
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Duner bikes only! It's the most similar to what us average Zilla guys have. That's how we do the crown race at Silver Lake.
Well just a heads up.....we aren't the average Zilla guys.
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Duner bikes only! It's the most similar to what us average Zilla guys have. That's how we do the crown race at Silver Lake.
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Ouch whats the duner limit?,.. My optimum engine/pipe#19 package works well in my hybrid/hillshooter chassis but its a bit long for duning and the shocks suck.
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Not trying to stir the pot........but...............I have to ask,
What list of category of quads to be ran, type of porting, is this an all drag or is this Dune port race, what size piston, how can anyone tell before hand? Length of swing arms, paddle type, size, what fuel? C12? do you both drain the tanks before hand? and use the same 5 Gal jug? No NOS systems , weigh in on each quad? ...........Would both parties be willing to do a teardown inspection afterwards?
Or just bring the best beast you have and run it?
Lets not complicate...I only ask no overide trans.. and no Nos .., turbo,.or Liger setups,..straight motor only.
Thats because I don't have any of that fancy stuff!! :(
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OK, what about banshee hill? split the difference..
I want to see it.
I'd maybe go to Dumont.
Road trip from Glamis about 325 miles, not bad. Always wanted to try out Dumont.
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it would be cool to see a zilla run against a renegade 1000x, but lets not forget it is double the cc's.
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I would love to see kennerz and dales bike run by riders of similar size. Both bikes are set up as builder optimized play duners. Sand or pavement makes no difference to me.....but sand you can play the rest of the day. Both run fuel from same can.
Beyond that...zilla wars anything goes would be an added bonus. And yes get a renegade 1000 out there.
Hope this happens..
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Where are our European friends at? It would be awesome to get them involved in this? Some of these guys have street legal zillas. In addition to them doing any dyno testing, maybe they can do some timed events at a test / race track or road course. You can't call this real world without including all types of riding. And me being a hot rodder, i'm always down for a good dragstrip brawl.
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I personally like racing on pavement to find out who has a stronger machine. 2nd gear rollout eliminates everything but the power you have. Even 3 and 4 wheel action used a dragstrip in the day for their shootout. Would love to see that using today's quads in dirt wheels...
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Pavement here means the C:-)
Dumont or Glamis either one would be terrific see the showdown...
Best to bring your fastest race machine period. (Y)
Maybe that Can Am 4x4 will show up to race the winner!
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We drag race on back roads around here all the time....plus all the county fair atv drags are on a hard packed track that isn't much different. I ride roads a hell of a lot more than I ride sand....it depends on where you live.
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And how many people really ride on pavement with these things????Real World?
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i think your asking a little too much Mitch, for one you know Q will never agree to opening his bike up for you to look at.
and that just asking for more out of pocket expense, i think we are just lucky that they both agree to this race.
why would someone agree to race drive numerous hours to the race site drag up the hill then tear bike apart.
then what leave after a hour at the dunes cause your bike is tore apart and you cant ride anymore.
This is Zilla Wars.... bring it or sit on the side with a camera. and I am sure there will be more than
Dale Tony and Robert racing up the hill. everyone wants a shot to be king of the hill.
hell if I could make it I would be there on scammy, remember what Q said no one ever beat him on the hill with it.
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Not trying to stir the pot........but...............I have to ask,
What list of category of quads to be ran, type of porting, is this an all drag or is this Dune port race, what size piston, how can anyone tell before hand? Length of swing arms, paddle type, size, what fuel? C12? do you both drain the tanks before hand? and use the same 5 Gal jug? No NOS systems , weigh in on each quad? ...........Would both parties be willing to do a teardown inspection afterwards?
Or just bring the best beast you have and run it?
Very cool, I hope this happens....by the sounds of it Kennerz was looking to race comparable bikes (one with a QV2 and one with an HPR#19) to put the “best pipe” argument to sleep, while Dale wants to have a “Zilla Wars” to determine the baddest bike period. I’d love to see the outcome of both scenarios, so I don’t really care where or what they race lol. Imo pavement would be the way to go if you want to take the swingarm/suspension/tires/rider ability/etc. variables out of the equation, but it’s hard to deny who has the faster bike when one makes it up the hill first (especially if there aren’t any whoops at the bottom). Plus I think Tony ran NOS on the bike he raced Dale with before, so you wouldn’t want to restrict that. Personally I like all the “drama” a good pipe comparison thread creates....it sure beats the same old questions over and over.
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Not trying to stir the pot........but...............I have to ask,
What list of category of quads to be ran, type of porting, is this an all drag or is this Dune port race, what size piston, how can anyone tell before hand? Length of swing arms, paddle type, size, what fuel? C12? do you both drain the tanks before hand? and use the same 5 Gal jug? No NOS systems , weigh in on each quad? ...........Would both parties be willing to do a teardown inspection afterwards?
Or just bring the best beast you have and run it?
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Hopefully this race does happen and a video taken so I can get my Dune fix through Video. Also maybe some people will settle there differences, being every post including the first one I posted have had feelings being hurt(sorry about that) it would be good for all of us to just get along and have constructive conversations without the negativity. I love all the builders that take there time and hard earned money making parts and testing the great machine we cherish so much.
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Looking at those graphs makes me wish i still had my Qv1. Damn that thing is high strung!
Yes it is - kinda peaky.
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i got one for sale $850.00
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Looking at those graphs makes me wish i still had my Qv1. Damn that thing is high strung!
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all i know is someone better get this on video... suzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhqsuzukiquadracerhq
I hear that.... Lemme know when. suzukiquadracerhq
Please keep on topic
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is it March yet,
where is Serg??? someone let him know there is a race...
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all i know is someone better get this on video... P* P* P* P* P* P* P* P*
I hear that.... Lemme know when. P*
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Dumont...well that means no whoops but if thats the best you can do it works. Motors run a little better there. First weekend I'm available is march 2-3. When you thinking? I need to give Tony a heads up.
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all i know is someone better get this on video... P* P* P* P* P* P* P* P*
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Now that we have the graphs, will ANYONE take Ken up on his challenge??? I'd gladly invinte him in this time zone.
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I'm not racing on the pavement... I like tires and I like suspension, and I like the whoops ALOT... All motor is on the dyno.
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I agree Ken, I think the head to head racing would be fun. Here's the thing...I said this a few years back, they have 4 stroke wars, Banshee wars, all run in the sand. I pushed for and we had Zilla wars, at Glamis in the sand with just me and Tony from T&N,.. no sign of RK (personal issues) but we had a great time and did race until I broke. Now whats with this wanting to race on the back road.. spotters watching for cars..what if a cop shows up(?)..is it just a low budget operation? I'm not traveling for that ever. Tell your bro to step it up a notch and lets race where the bikes are meant to run.. I heard Tony will come back too.
And no I don't mean me and you racing... obviously.
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-T
John please keep it on topic.
Some of us still have issues with Rk, Leave them off this site, The Pipe debate will go on and on, again the goal was to look at the power bands on 2 different quad, not hill shooters not 300ft drag racers, just engine types that most members on this might own, a 1990 dune port and the up graded 2010 dune ports HPR and Qs HRD 500 Fanatics are in this category.
Thats all, cost the members nothing, we did it out of our pockets to share, so if it bugs you I'm sorry, then block this thread so it dosnt bother you, this goes into pissing match I will start the banning. A>
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P*
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no i was not throwing poo, i do have a lot of it here though, my 2yr old $hits up a storm... lol
i was just wondering where you was at, since the new thread was posted and you was not on top of it like the rest of them.
but if you ever need some poo lmk. lol
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Here we go again, folks its just graphs
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z183/erbe03/DaleQuadDynoHPR-19V1V2DCS-402-07-13-page-001_zpsa9c22657.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z183/erbe03/MITCHQUADHPR-19V1V2DCS-4-page-001_zps98cbaab7.jpg)
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Just how often are you guys running WOT high gear for an extended period of time???
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....Kennerz looks like he weighs about 300 pounds and Kev is like what 130? haha.....
Frontal area is also a factor. However, I still know a bigger counter would have worked.
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THE MORE I LOOK AT THIS DYNO....MAN THATS A JH GIRL PORT...LOL.
JUST IMAGINE A SUPER DUPER WHIPP YOUR A$$ DALE DRAG PORT WITH THAT 19 PIPE MAN THATS PROBABLY OVER A 100HP ON A CAR DYNO...LMFAO
LETS...RACE +k2
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only about 150lb difference for the riders, ken your bike run good, you guys should have switched bikes to see what would have happened then.
and why point me out Ken, you act like i am the only one talking.
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The Kev vs. Kennerz race video is absolutely pointless to me. Kennerz looks like he weighs about 300 pounds and Kev is like what 130? haha Not to mention Kennerz doesn't even look like he's on the throttle.
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Kennerz says, I'm out of gear. And kevs bike is an 87. So his 5 th gear is a bit taller. Still real close run
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real close
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5CSdvafh3c&list=HL1360520595&feature=mh_lolz
I think he could have pulled a 15 tooth
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wicked
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Great info Alkyzilla....Dam the the HPR19 has over 10 more hp than the Qv1 at 5500 rpm..in a grudge match race that would be a sledgehammer of an advantage!!
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where is the vid, Link
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Hmmmm... Looks like all Ken needed was two teeth off the rear sprocket. Or anyone with an HPR. I prefer a 15t counter.
Thats what I thought too when I saw the road race vid..He hung in there really well for being such a big guy and then seemed to peak out. Was there any mention of gearing on the bikes?
13-40. I asked them to do the same run with a 14t. I guess he would rather spend $900 than $19.
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Hmmmm... Looks like all Ken needed was two teeth off the rear sprocket. Or anyone with an HPR. I prefer a 15t counter.
Thats what I thought too when I saw the road race vid..He hung in there really well for being such a big guy and then seemed to peak out. Was there any mention of gearing on the bikes?
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Alright.,,,that was a bit of a stretch about the girlfriend, she likes it but won't get past 3rd gear and won't go up the hill, not yet anyway, maybe next trip.
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Hmmmm... Looks like all Ken needed was two teeth off the rear sprocket. Or anyone with an HPR. I prefer a 15t counter.
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dammm where is Kennerz, Mitch did you give him the boot again. lol
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Good Stuff..Dale.... D? But im going to have to call JH and ask if i got the girlfriend port Job...LMFAO im pretty sure I didnt..lol
PITWI or WOF +k2
LETS..RACE...lol
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Dale, until you said that I had no idea it was Saturday.
Such is the life of a cropduster in the off-season LOL
B_Fuss...sorry if you didn't understand.
Weeeeeeeee
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/055/258/GonadsAndStrife.gif)
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Um ok peak torque at 5250. Is a good rpm to roll on entering a large sweeping dune bowl. Then I can pull a wheely past the others. Weeee
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Geez Cliff....Its saturday Night..!.. do we really have to think this much?? I certainly know who to come to with my next math question.
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I want to build a trail Zilla with that ERBE 4.75 pipe. Wheelies anyone +k2?
Also - no shame with rocking the Dr. Q V2 pipe. I can see where I feel the stronger pull through the powerband vs. the V1 I had. I have a HPR port/carb on a big reed motor and its just silly.
I agree thats a step up..one you would feel.....and you could take one more. Of course I don't think you should just in case we go racing someday! ;D
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B_Fuss...torque only tells part of the story, HP tells all of it.
There is no differentiation between HP and torque...they're not unrelated measurements telling different things.
HP is simply how much torque you're making at a certain RPM.
Think about it for a minute, if it was all about torque, then why aren't YOU turning the crank with a huge breaker bar?
I can torque a prop nut on my agcat to 750 ft/lbs which is equivalent to my duramax's output, that doesn't mean I can propel a truck 80mph down the highway hauling a trailer with nothing more than a breaker bar.
If I could crank out 750 ft/lbs on a breaker bar at 5,252RPM, I would be making 750HP (torque and HP measurements are ALWAYS the same at 5,252RPM).
Since I can only turn the breaker bar at maybe 1/2RPM, I'm not making any usable power (like .1HP, which is about right for a human).
That's the difference between HP and torque...torque is a static measurement and HP is how much torque you can produce at RPM.
If the torque curve was perfectly straight, maintaining 100 ft/lbs for example from idle all the way to redline, then the HP curve would be a straight diagonal line from one corner to the other on the graph, intersecting at 5,252RPM.
Torque measurements by themselves won't reflect any kind of useful information other than how all of the engine parts are tuned to each other.
The torque required for a certain task isn't very important, even if it's more than what your engine can produce, that's why we all have a transmission with different gear ratios and sprockets (gearing changes wheel torque output, so you can use the right gear to meet or exceed torque requirements)
Here's a simple thought experiment...a high strung streetbike engine vs. a V-twin torque monster.
The streetbike engine will produce 50 ft/lbs at 10,504RPM, the V-twin will produce 100 ft/lbs at 5,252RPM (twice the torque, half the RPM).
Both bikes are running the same exact speed in a drag race....the streetbike is in a lower gear because it's running at twice the RPM (let's say it a 2:1 drive ratio at the wheel) and the V-twin is in high gear (1:1).
Which one has more wheel torque?
A: They're both the exact same.
If they both have the exact same torque output, they should have the power to accelerate equally, correct?
Well, let's look at it a little closer.
The V-twin is making 100HP, the streetbike is making 135.6HP (using a torque to HP calculator)
All other things being equal in a perfect world (say both engines were swapped out on a testbed vehicle), the streetbike would win in a race due to having more HP, even though the engine itself is not making as much torque.
So when you see a graph with only HP measurements, just know that it's telling you USEFUL information.
If you want to get an idea of what the torque is on a HP only graph, just fill in this calculator to get the number:
http://ncalculators.com/electrical/horsepower-to-torque-calculator.htm
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Here you go Bill. I agree thats important stuff.
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Those are nice. However, us fat boys want to see the torque curve.
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Great post Dale.
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I want to build a trail Zilla with that ERBE 4.75 pipe. Wheelies anyone +k2?
Also - no shame with rocking the Dr. Q V2 pipe. I can see where I feel the stronger pull through the powerband vs. the V1 I had. I have a HPR port/carb on a big reed motor and its just silly.
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my girlfriend likes it, lmao
i know what to tell Jerry when he builds my next top end, I dont have a girlfriend, I want the husbands port job. lol
thanks Dale
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Thanks Alkyzilla.Good stuff suzukiquadracerhq