I been looking for the "Pro vs the Con" on Ceramic Coating, Plating on exhaust systems, since the Hall #19 pipe thread came up on care of the finish, anyone have insight on this?
Depends on your pipe manufacture. Talk to them. I've never seen any loss or gain on our pipes from raw to chrome. On our stuff ceramic is a very bad idea...
Matt, why would they Ceramic coat a 2 stroke pipe.
same reason you you nickel, chrome or paint an exhaust. So I doesn't rust.
To keep it from burning up upon reentry? Some guys get some serious airtime
pipe ster: why are ceramic coats on your pipes bad? coating inside and or outside?
Ceramic coating keeps more heat and changes the thickness of the pipe in turn changing how it works. Ceramic coatings aren't a bad thing but require a very different design and engine set up. From my testing you can chrome, nickel or paint most atv pipes without any loss in power but I've personally tested ceramic coated pipes and see huge losses in usable power.
Ceramic coating keeps more heat and changes the thickness of the pipe in turn changing how it works. Ceramic coatings aren't a bad thing but require a very different design and engine set up. From my testing you can chrome, nickel or paint most atv pipes without any loss in power but I've personally tested ceramic coated pipes and see huge losses in usable power.
I saw some banshee pipes with some sort of black coating on your FB page. What type of coating is it? High temp paint? specific brand? how does it hold up?
Ceramic Came about in the automotive hi po industry. Where keeping underhood temps down is important for a cool inlet air charge therefore the ceramic is designed to hold heat in the pipe much like header wrap to reduce underhood temperature.
so how would keeping more heat inside the pipe affect the flow characteristics of a hot gas? el diablo had his HPR pipe coated, no change in performance only less heat on his leg. changing the inside diameter of a pipe by coating it makes sense with a fluid flowing inside of it but how is a coat any different from the build up in a pipe while its used. the inside of the tune pipe after use gets coated with oil film which is as thick as a coat of paint. so why wouldnt the build up of oil film inside the pipe affect its flow characteristics?
not trying to disprove you pipester just asking questions for the sake of gaining knowledge.
Thanks for the info on the raw vs chrome Matt, I can put dyno time to other uses!
Ceramic coating keeps more heat and changes the thickness of the pipe in turn changing how it works. Ceramic coatings aren't a bad thing but require a very different design and engine set up. From my testing you can chrome, nickel or paint most atv pipes without any loss in power but I've personally tested ceramic coated pipes and see huge losses in usable power.
Why the heck would Aaen want to Ceramic Coat there products then?
Aaen does not do ceramic coatings themselves, if the customer asks about it Aaen sends it out to someone else. You have too wait a extra week or so if you want your pipe coated before they ship it out.
holding more heat in the pipe affects the tuned length of a pipe. Hot gasses = highly excited particles this in turn makes the gasses/ pressure waves flow faster through the pipe .
That is the answer that I can understand. Thanks for taking the time to edjumacate others like myself.
I sell Ceramic Coated headers for Cars and Trucks every day I'm at work. The same principles for them apply to any Ceramic Coated Pipe or Header. Ceramic Coating does retain more heat in the tubes opposed to uncoated pipes and or headers. And it also protects the pipe and or header for it to last longer than uncoated version of the same thing.
I know that in the auto and truck world that I sell headers to, the mfg's recommend that you NEVER break in a new motor with a Ceramic Coated pipe and or header.
Here is their disclaimer IMPORTANT!: Installing coated headers on an engine during the break-in period will cause discoloration. We recommend the use of factory manifolds, or an old set of headers, during the engine break-in period.
This information that I've posted below is from Jet Hot Coatings:
Ceramic Coating 101
1) Performance
•Reduces under-hood temperatures
•Improves thermal efficiency of the engine system
•Maintains uniform temperature throughout the exhaust system
•Improves the performance of the heart of the vehicle
•Provides more useful horsepower by reducing the mass of the reciprocating components
2) Protection
•Keeps the engine compartment cooler
•Extends the life of neighboring components
•Improves thermal oxidation protection at higher temperatures
•Reduces parasitic drag losses
•Reduces the friction properties where lubricants are intended to stay
•Improves cooling efficiency and aids oil drain-back, where lubricants are intended to shed oil
•Reduces surface profiles using friction reduction fluoropolymers
•Provides protection up to 2,500F (Jet-Hot Extreme 2500 series)
3) Polish
•Provides a clean appearance
•Available in a variety of colors and finishes
•Unlike chrome, Jet-Hot’s silvery finish won’t blue
•Stays bright and true for years
•Easy to clean
Coating Definitions:
Annealing - reduction in strength of metals. Typically softens the metal. This is important for the cure of coatings and the various substrates. Aluminum and bearings are negatively affected by high temperature during the cure process.
•Electrical conductivity - the ability to transfer electrons through a coating. This property is important for the sacrificial protection of cermets to the substrate steel. It also provides the protection from undercutting (rust) of the coating.
•Emissivity - the ability of a material to either absorb or reject heat. Low emissivity reflects heat (similar to aluminum foil). High emissivity attracts heat.
•Ferrous/non ferrous – iron containing material that can rust or heavily oxidize with thermal cycles.
•Fretting – erosion of metal by continuous agitation to the surface.
•Galling – a cold welding phenomenon that occurs when protective oxide layers expose reactive metal. Similar metals undergo galling and seize to each other. This does not occur on carbon steels.
•Galvanic activity - the ability to transfer electrons from an anode to a cathode. Important for sacrificial coating protection from oxidation to the substrate.
•Oxidation (thermal and chemical) – chemical change in a substrate or other material typically resulting in oxide formation (rust). This will be red or brown on steel or iron containing substrates and white on aluminum.
•Passivation – a boundary layer that improves the protection of the primary coating layer. Topcoats are a form of passivation.
•Pre-ignition causes – engine timing affects the combustion within an engine. Pre-ignition results when the firing is performed before the piston has returned to the top of the chamber. This causes knocking in the engine and results in damage to the piston, crank, and valves.
•Sacrificial – the cermet coating’s ability to transfer protective electrons to the substrate so that undercutting and corrosion don’t form on the interface of the coating and the part.
•Thermal conductivity – the ability of a coating or other material to transfer heat through the material. Low thermal conductivity is good for insulation benefits.
•Thermal fatigue - loss of carbon from the substrate steel resulting in pitting and scale formation (rust).
Maintenance Tips:
If you’ve selected a Jet-Hot finish, it’s obvious to us that you care about your project. And you probably want to keep your Jet-Hotted parts looking and running their best for years to come. These simple maintenance tips will help you get the most out of your Jet-Hot investment.
•When dyno testing or breaking in a new motor or valve train it is very important to ensure adequate cooling of heat-quenched coated exhaust components. Stagnant air or no vehicle movement combined with high RPM settings can result in component temperatures exceeding the limitations of the aluminum in the coating matrix. To eliminate this problem, we suggest a large fan be used to dissipate and transfer heat.
• To maintain a beautiful finish and prevent corrosion for years to come, periodic maintenance of the coating is required. We recommend periodic cleaning of your parts to remove road grime, salt and oil from the coatings and any non-abrasive aluminum polish for heavily oxidized or stained coatings.
•Stains such as oils, transmission fluid and antifreeze can be easily removed with fine steel wool or Scotchbrite™ (red) and any non-abrasive aluminum polish. After removing the stains, polish to a high luster with the aluminum polish and a soft cloth.
• Colors other than polished aluminum require special handling when installing. These are all top-coated systems and the pigments can be very soft in nature. Although tougher than paints, they should be handled with the same care. Remember, all of Jet-Hot’s top-coated systems protect against corrosion and thermal fatigue.
•Unequal fuel distribution or advanced spark timing can result in extreme EGT’s (exhaust gas temperatures) which will exceed the temperature limitations. Make certain all cylinders are functioning properly. Static-time your engine prior to starting it up for break-in. Please call or email our technical department with any questions at 1.800.432.3379 or sales@jet-hot.com.
•Do not use any kind of caustic solutions to clean your Jet-Hot coated components. A variety of chemicals are being used on race tracks and highways today, so make it a habit to occasionally wash off your headers.
I hope this helps shed a little more light on the Ceramic Coating benefits.
it makes sense that if your pipe is designed and constructed at ambient temperature, that it will maintain its design characteristics the closer it is to ambient temp. so coating the pipe will maintain higher temps inside therefore cause more thermal expansion of the pipe. however to me that would make the idea of coating the inside of the pipe more appealing bc the coat would help insulate the pipe and reduce its thermal expansion.
i like how this tread has various inputs from many individuals and no one is getting angry or worked up.
i like how this tread has various inputs from many individuals and no one is getting angry or worked up.
Me too!!! We're all here to help each other, and that's the way it should be