Dry out lower end cavity w/ ether?

Dry out lower end cavity w/ ether?
Posted by 4-tracker on 17 Mar, 2016 15:47
Because of hard starting issues I was told to dry out lower end cavity w/ ether (maybe same as starting fluid) by spraying half can (with reeds removed) into cavity and allowing it to dry out for 24 hrs. Question will this dry out the crank and piston rod bearings. Was told that the old gas and oil buildup in there causes the piston to fire out of whack? Does any of this sound right? I do know a teaspoonful of crappy oil blew out of the crank seal into the stator area. Could the excess oil gas have caused the seal to pop out?

#1 Reply
Posted by LT500Kid on 18 Mar, 2016 04:40
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

#2 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 18 Mar, 2016 05:27
need little more help than that, sir lol
I just yesterday got the new crank seals and before going through all that again would really help if someone that has had a similar problem and solution could PLEASE!!! come to the aid of this sickly old zilla! That runs like greased lightening once you fire her up! Hope to go down to Toledo ohio tomorrow (just west of there about 10 miles) called Maumee State Forest. Never been yet just an hours ride away. Anyone else been there? Even if its not all that great at least its a way to get away from S. E. mi for awhile where the only other alternative play areas are much further away.

#3 Reply
Posted by Q2W on 18 Mar, 2016 08:39
if your bike is hard to start it's likely a jetting issue.

The person that told about you the fuel in the crank area is SOMEWHAT right. but not really, lol. Excessive fuel there will cause the bike to be flooded thus hard to start. If this happens you can just disconnect the header pipe springs and turn the up on its front wheels or have the bike pull started. It will bellow a ton of smoke for a bit but will clean up. Try not to leave the fuel in the on position when storing the bike.

Again, i'm willing to bet it's just a jetting issue. Zilla's HATE to start when they're lean on the pilot jet.

#4 Reply
Posted by jonbon540 on 18 Mar, 2016 08:54
"IF" you were worried about a ton of extra premix fuel in the lower end of crankcase, I could see how removing the reeds and bringing piston to top dead could let it air out . And how starting fluid may aid in getting old oil sludge to evaporate or get burned out perhaps ??

Spraying starter fluid in there may help I guess, I'd be worried about leaving reeds off in a shed or drafty garage blowing dust down into motor, so I'd keep it covered with a rag of some sort .

I think the person that told you that didn't explain themselves completely, maybe a blowgun and compressed air after the lower end starting fluid saturation ?

This may be a trick best used under adult supervision.

#5 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 18 Mar, 2016 09:29
Thanks for the quick assist! pilot jet 30. go down to 22.5?
I believe most of the gunk in the lower end blew out when the seal blew. Is it possible the fluid in there blew up causing the seal to pop? Then the gunk buildup in there blew out as well? I would guess at least a teaspoonful with what poured out when opening case cover and sprayed all out on everything in there.

Also I've asked this before and don't believe I got an answer back. The correct pulse coil gap? mine is at .020. Is that close? Cant find it in manual anywhere!

#6 Reply
Posted by Q2W on 18 Mar, 2016 11:46
what are your specs? Pipe? air filter? air box? porting? reeds? elevation? gas? ratio? mods? 87 carb or 88+?

If you havent done a leak down test, i'd do that first. Jetting wont matter if you have an air leak.

And since you're popping crank seals i'd imagine you have an air leak. Have you tested your main bearings? grab the flywheel and move it up and down. If it moves, they're bad and will suck air.

Im not sure about the correct gap. Are you looking in the repair manual or owners? I'd imagine it would have to be the repair manual. I can look tonight if you dont have one.

Also, it would be a good idea to go ahead and test your stator.

#7 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 18 Mar, 2016 18:38
Thanks for all that great info! I'll follow it up right away.
Have 1987 model pretty much stock.
Reeds in great shape! Real tight, no cracks.
No porting on next to last bore. 89mm w/ new rings and gaskets. after starting runs fast as hell! and idles great too
Flat michigan near or under sea level lol
Just ordered new slide and needle and needle jet. My slide has the horseshoe worn marks. Hope this will help w/ air leaks!
Cant feel much movement in crank. Already checked that.
Next to last bore 89mm.
Will do leak test soon. Need tester.
I'll also do soapy spray on gaskets while running.
Just found pulse coil gap specs 25 - 30. mine is 20. will re adjust tomorrow! Wont find it in the manual.
New stator installed last week with no difference with starting help.
32-1 premium. cant afford better and ride too! Runs great on pump gas! Do alot of trail riding not so much racing.
I'll report back after following yours and everyones suggestions and installing new carb parts, Thanks again!

#8 Reply
Posted by MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on 19 Mar, 2016 16:22
Starting fluid will dissolve the oil and any goo but will return to being goo as soon as the either evaporates because you are not removing any of the goo from the crankcase

If the lower end is full of fuel. turn off the fuel, turn the ignition switch OFF and kick it over a few time to discharge the charged capacitor in the CDI box!!!. Remove the spark plug, put it in 1st gear, hold the throttle wide open and push the bike until fuel vapor stop coming out of the spark plug hole. The vapors will usually stop coming out of the spark plug hole after pushing it 30 to 50 feet. This will clear out anything that will keep the engine from running.

Air gap of .020" is fine if the crank is true, the bearing are tight and the bearing pockets are tight. Some times if the gap is more than .040" it may not send a triggering pulse unless you kick the engine real rapidly.

#9 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 19 Mar, 2016 16:46
Thanks for that! I'll try that tomorrow!
A good teaspoonful of goo blew out through the crank seal. Is it possible most of the goo blew out then? Is it supposed to be oil free more than that? Isn't it true the lower end in the crank chamber needs some lubricant for moving parts? I thought too that starting fluid might clean the moving parts out too much!

#10 Reply
Posted by MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on 19 Mar, 2016 17:38
Nothing should blow by or through the crank seal. A teaspoon of goo is not going to keep the engine from starting. A teaspoon of fuel on a cold engine will make it start instantly. A teaspoon of fuel on a hot engine will flood it and may take 5 kicks to clear the flood before it will start.

If you take a jar 1/2 full of oil or grease and finish filling with starting fluid or something like acetone, after the starting fluid or acetone evaporates you will still have half a jar of oil or grease.

Everything in the lower end should be coated with a very light layer of oil. If there is a heavy layer of oil coating everything in the lower end, it will not keep it from kick starting if the correct amount of fuel vapors are present in the crankcase. If there is a few ounces or more or oil in the crankcase area and you are spinning the engine over rapidly like when you are pull starting it, you make pump enough oil from the crankcase to coat the spark plug and prevent it from starting. Looking at the spark plug will instantly reveal if this has occurred.

An engine needs 3 things to run. A minimum amount of compression, the proper amount of fuel, and spark at the right time. On a cold engine a very rich mixture is best. It is hard to flood a cold two stroke as long as there is not an ounce or more of raw fuel in the crank case. If you have 75 psi compression an engine, it will run. If the spark is plus or minus 15 degrees of where it should be, it will run. If you cannot get your engine to start something is a mile off in one or more of these three basic requirements.

#11 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 20 Mar, 2016 06:04
Took it out all day yesterday. Idols great after fine tune throttle! Very Quick response while riding! Fast as hello! My son has a big, powerful leg yet still takes Quite few kicks to fire! I had good luck couple times by following bringing piston just past TDC then bringing kicker back up and BAM started right up! Yet after getting back home 2 hrs later w/ cold engine unable to start even after priming 5 times key off. Frustrating as hell! lol Like I said earlier in my post I have new slide, needle and needle jet on the way with everything else in carb ''new'' and set dead on spec's! If that doesn't work ''new carb'' time! Tired of bothering so many over (like many of you have said) everything pointing to jetting and I agree!! Stupid old carb!! lol
! did get a chance to test out new stator 130 w for new 72w led's. Worked great! Stator $54 on Ebay free shipping. So easy to install for so much improvement in lighting and looks! Was hoping new stator would help starting! NOPE! Same as before. I'll keep trying everyone's recommendations here with much gratitude!
Thanks to all of you! Beers on me!!

#12 Reply
Posted by Q2W on 21 Mar, 2016 06:30
Install the new slide and see how it runs. My old worn out slide required me to run over a 40 pilot and was a pita to start. After getting the new slide, i was able to run a 35 and starts on 1-3 kicks no matter the temp out. My bike is ported with a larger carb so our jetting will be different. Adjust your jetting as required.

#13 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 21 Mar, 2016 07:24
Thanks guys, cant hardly wait for carb parts!! I'll post it here (in couple days) after the install. Keeping fingers x'ed!

#14 Reply
Posted by 4-tracker on 21 Mar, 2016 07:53
Trying to wrap my head around how this carb slide works. Is it like a Windex spray bottle pump/squirter? I know if theres a crack or hole in tube between liquid in bottle and the air the pumping mechanism looses prime since its drawing in air instead of fluid.

#15 Reply
Posted by MotorGeek - Jerry Hall on 21 Mar, 2016 08:20
Quote from: 4-tracker on 21 Mar, 2016 07:53
Trying to wrap my head around how this carb slide works. Is it like a Windex spray bottle pump/squirter? I know if theres a crack or hole in tube between liquid in bottle and the air the pumping mechanism looses prime since its drawing in air instead of fluid.

No, it is not a squirter of pump. It works like a syphon type paint gun or the old fashioned fly sprayer. I can explain it to you but I can not understand it for you..