Author Topic: Lectron 44mm Still Banging Out on Top End ? (Read 2239 times)

Beastzilla405 · « **on:** October 14, 2012, 08:15:17 am »

I was just at little sahara last weekend and had a open space to open this beast up finely and it just would fall on its face when it was hitting the top end WOT so i kept turning the power jet in and it really never changed the way it was acting the carb is dennis packerd lectron 44mm 5xl needle over sized bowl running 110vp klotz 32:1 mix cylinder is ported 89mm ported piston iceracer"carl" set up head o ringed and squish fixed and intake boot mod and q pipe and silencer pingle high flow tank valve and bigger gas line it runs strong till it starts hitting the top end like 3 or 4th gear WOT it will bang out it starts good and idles good it dont rev crazy or anything its just top end only plug was little black race gas should be light grey from what i have read so that tells me its to rich but i turned the power jet pretty much all the way in i took the carb off and went through it nothing looked to be out of order it was clean as when i got it new i did read on the old site that some people are running a 6.2 needle but it seems to run good now on the low end and midrange but the low and mid is not the same circuit as the top end so im at a loss any help tuning this thing would be awesome thanks

Cunningham_821 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:05:35 am »

Go wide open and pull the farther and see what plug looks like sounds to me u have a pj problem. But the needle has a say in the top end also.

Nopick · « **Reply #2 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:19:10 am »

What pipe are you running?

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:45:33 am »

i have been reading the lectron manual and heres what it says the low and mid run on there own circuit if it starts and idles than there set the top end comes right off the bottom of the fuel bowl with a fuel line right to the top end power jet its a tapered jet needle the goes from wide open to closed you just turn it in till it stops banging out well i did went from all the way out to all the way closed dident really do much change when i bought this from dennis packard he told me to see if it starts and if it does and it idles than the low end and mid are set he said to keep turning the power jet in till it clears up or stops banging out and thats it he told me he set it a little rich so i could tune the top end this way the top end only works from 50% to 3/4 throttle in the manual so im like wtf is going on and i am running a q pipe everything on the quad is new and done right its all working right but the top end

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:55:26 am »

this lectron dont have the power jet you can change jet size its a dial you adjust from open to close to tune it in so it does several different jet sizes with a dial and i took fuel line off the bowl and blew through the power jet and it has mad flow so i started to dial it down and it will keep slowing the flow down till its all the way off so im like wtf on this thing it has so much flow it should be fine for getting fuel on top end

the first time i ran it it almost died when i got into the throttle so i ran the power jet in till it cleared up but never cleared up all the way and i have never had enough space to run it wfo till last weekend at little sahara

Rider414 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2012, 12:29:56 pm »

Any chance its a bad CDI? Or plug?

What is banging out at WOT? Is it flat? Bogs? Stumbles?

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2012, 02:03:59 pm »

WOT= wide open throttle,,,,,, banging out =cutting out like its to rich but its trying to go almost like its sucking the bowl dry but theres no way it is tho

Rider414 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2012, 02:08:07 pm »

It would be a float issue only after extended wot. Does it ever clear out and rev out on the pipe?

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2012, 03:24:52 pm »

Do you have the Huge bowl on it? I've heard of severel guy's sucking them dry at WOT with the small bowl.

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2012, 05:22:24 pm »

has the bigger billet bowl big fuel line pingle high flow valve modded gas cap i did it all and no it dont really clear up it gets going on top end and it will still have the top end cutting out so i have to get out of the throttle so i dont fugg the motor i mean its like im restricting the motor it wants to go more way more but it starts cutting out and i have to let our of the throttle because if it was leaning out it would feel like it was running out of fuel and its not reving like that its loseing hp and cutting out like its to rich still even after i closed the power jet all the way in does anyone run a lectron

? i guess ill try to get intouch with dennis packerd hes just so busy it had a mukini vm44 modded but i never could get it in tune so i went lectron cause easy tuning well ok here we are

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2012, 07:08:22 pm »

What size needle is in it? And how far out is the needle and how high is the slide? Are your reeds good and intact?

Cunningham_821 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:10:47 pm »

Please give us your needle size and the height of your needle from tip to bottom of slide.

MotorGeek - Jerry Hall · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:18:36 pm »

Quote from: BadMoonRacing500 on October 14, 2012, 03:24:52 pm

Do you have the Huge bowl on it? I've heard of severel guy's sucking them dry at WOT with the small bowl.

You should not need a large float bowl if you have the right sized float valve (needle and seat) and fuel pressure. A larger float bowl only adds a little more time or distance until you run into the same fuel starvation problem you had with a small float bowl. Don't put a band-aid on it. Fix the fuel supply INTO what ever float bowl you are using. You cannot tune a carburetor when the fuel level is not staying the same inside of the float bowl.

Rogue1970 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2012, 11:05:55 am »

Hey Beast, I also was running a stock bowl Lectron 44 and I went thru all the fuel modifications trying to fix my W.O. cutout issue. I drilled the gas cap, added a banshee high flow pingle, and even did some timing measurements on flowing a gallon of fuel from the tank into a gallon milk jug. When I finally got my setup to flow a gallon of fuel as fast with or without the gas cap on, I knew I was at my max flow from the tank to the carb.

I suspected it was my HRD engine sucking the carb bowl dry, but could not 100% confirm it. The stock bowl on the Lectron is clear, but it is a bit hard to try and check when W.O. in the dunes

Well last year, I decided to switch to Jerry's pipe (HPR#19) from my Q pipe AND to switch to a modded TM38 carb. While Jerry was on the dyno, I was watching from the side and I saw my setup (Lectron 44 w/Q pipe) suck the bowl dry when he started the pull. Took ~5 seconds before my bike started stuttering. We swapped out to the modded TM38 and the bike made several clean pulls with no stuttering (~10 seconds W.O. pull).

I had several suggestions that I could add a fuel pump to make sure I have enough fuel, but I didn't want to go that route as it addresses the symptom and not the problem.

I was going to try and find a larger float valve to flow more fuel, but never found any good answers on the internet. I never talked to Packard. After talking with Jerry, I wanted to go back to the TM38 since it has more adjustments for off idle, and midrange. The Lectron is a good drag racing carb since you can change the main by twisting an external screw. It works fine for idle and W.O.

I built a dune bike first and drag racer second. I enjoy having great mid-range power and being able to use 3rd gear in the dunes about all the time. I still have a pretty quick quad for drag racing. I could get more power on the top-end by a larger carb, but I was worried about hurting the low/mid power. The modified TM38 works good enough for me.

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2012, 12:05:59 pm »

thanks everyone for the help and info and for anyone that did not read what was already said so were not just re answering the same questions heres a breakdown of my motor set up ...............

carb bowl is oversized billet bowl

gas cap has no guts vent inlet it has been drilled out bigger so its wide open it flows so much fuel theres no way it would suck the oversized bowl dry "imo"if it was it would rev like a wild crazy beast cause it would be way to lean running out of gas my kx 500 dirt bike has did that before to me and hold on

the fuel valve is a pingle high flow dirt valve with bigger out put fuel line size than stock

im running vf2 reeds brand new modded by "carl"iceracer and the carb boot was also modded to fit the vf2 reeds

gas line is over sized 2 sizes bigger than stock

lectron needle is 5.2xl carb is brand new from dennis packard he set it up to match my motor i took carb off went through its like new in there no dirt or sand in the bowl i cleaned it anyway every hole

piston is a 89mm ported rxd wesico cut piston billet thrust washers hot rod rod balanced crank and its welded

had the cylinder bored by someone in town to match the piston they did a great job on the crosshatch and it looked good

the porting on the cylinder is unknown but let me say its very ported out nice job they done was like that when i bought the quad

head is a cool head 53cc brand new rxd by "carl" iceracer set it up with the squish and o ringed fixed works killer no problems

its not over heating nor has it lost any coolent since it has been running it has 3 rides on it since motor was rebuilt maybe 10 hrs not for sure but its fresh build

has the stock air filter boot going to" shawn"sblt air box eliminator to 4"id uni duel layer high flow air filter

power valve is set just alittle past setting for q pipe seemed to run better and come on stronger than the setting that was for the q pipe set up i just kept going more till it felt good riding it all the bearings and orings seals and spring are all new on the pv

low end power is good mid is ok topend is cutting out but it is rideable till you really want to hit the throttle than its cutting out i tried to dile the power jet in and dident really change much from day i ran the motor i did all the breakin that skully recomended from the old site i torqued all the motor bolts to spec with digi snap on torque wrench it starts up good idles good its just the topend thats the only problem i seem to have with it i think its to rich still imo i drained my gas tank it has mad flow coming out of the valve and line its so much fuel it couldent run it out of the bowl i mean its flowing so much i dont think it could run out of fuel

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 15, 2012, 12:13:42 pm »

hey rogue i took my stock kx 500 39mm carb off and tested it on my zilla and it runs good and dont cut out but its like i put a restrictor on my power it just dont have the 2 stroke rev not enough flow and fuel like the lectron does i mean it runs killer on the kx500 that sob is a beast it will kill my zilla with all my mods i have done to it and the kx has a fmf pipe and silencer but its hard to beat the old kx its a monster its a 2000 if i could i would put that motor in the zilla would be awesome cause the kx has never let me down ever same plug in it since forever and it starts right up and goes all day this zilla with all the money dumped into it im getting pissed off more and more that it cant hold its own im close i think but who knows

Rogue1970 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2012, 12:59:14 pm »

KX engine in a zilla frame == lots of vibrations. I don't think the KX500 is a counter balanced engine. I think the best bet is to figure out the bugs with the Zilla engine and you should love it. I know what you mean about expecting a lean run away rev, but it didn't happen. The issue with the Lectron was the fuel input into the bowl. That was the restrictive area of my setup. It would run great until I went to 4th or 5th gear and tried to go Wide Open. That is when it would fall on its face (like I hit the off switch). Shut off the throttle for a second and then it would be running again as expected (at least until you try W.O. again).

Sounds like you have a full build with all your mods. I still think your running into an issue with the Lectron, as that was my exact problem with mine. Was a new Lectron setup by Packard also with everything you had (except for the larger bowl).

Stay with it... you have a lot of $$$ and time spent on your quad and I think you are close to getting thru the last issue.

P.S. With my build (similiar to yours above) my TM38 (modified by HPR) liked the 640 main jet when dyno tuning!

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:31:28 pm »

lol i was kidding about the kx motor i would never tear the bike down and your right it is not counter balanced i want this zilla motor to run the right way yeah i know it is frustrating as hell all i want to do is ride i just want to ride all day no wrenching on it just riding im going to try to contact dennis see if he has any thoughts i found his number on his site and i seen your build and some stuff you had to go through i learned from research well on the old site there was alot of people that had been through the same thing where im at now so i tried to stay with what was working for most 500 owners i know its close if you knew what i went through on this quad we could talk for a while so i tried to do it all right this time around

Iceracer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2012, 04:17:50 pm »

try timing the fuel flow through the carb. Take the bowl off and time how fast the fuel flows through the needle and seat.

Rogue1970 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2012, 04:59:09 pm »

Quote from: Iceracer on October 15, 2012, 04:17:50 pm

try timing the fuel flow through the carb. Take the bowl off and time how fast the fuel flows through the needle and seat.

I thought about that Carl.... sounds messy

I guess if your serious, you could have the carb sitting next to the fuel tank and do a true measurement. I wonder what flow rate is required for HRD builds.... I know this came up as a question before, but I don't remember if we ever got a final answer

Beastzilla405 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 15, 2012, 05:46:06 pm »

thats a great idea carl thanks........ and the head work is spot on .... i did talk to dennis today he is a great guy he said that the uni air filters sometimes restrict the air flow and said open up the gas cap a little bit more he said that should help it he said they can also suck enough WFO throttle to squeeze the air filter boot in just throwing some stuff out there he has seen before he said sometimes with bigger fuel lines if theres anything in the gas tank sand trash ect..it can get stuck inside some of the circuits but i already cleaned it out really good

Stpltn250r · « **Reply #21 on:** October 15, 2012, 06:34:49 pm »

I had a problem with a uni foam filter making the motor run super rich. swapped it out with a 6" long k&n and it fixed the problem. not saying it would fix yours but take the filter off and crank the throttle and see if it still cuts out.

PCS · « **Reply #22 on:** October 15, 2012, 06:43:06 pm »

^^ bc the kn flows more air than a uni for the same filter surface area. so it makes sense.

BadMoonRacing500 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2012, 07:21:11 pm »

Didn't Brett and a few others switch to a big AEM filter?

Cunningham_821 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2012, 07:28:23 pm »

Here are a few of my thought Packard set my 48 up with wrong needle first time. Number 2 I have stock gascap with guts and nodded petcock only and wind mine balls out in 5th gear on 500ft track I can't possibly see it running out of fuel I personally think its the needle/powerjet adjustment I'm pretty positive I have a 6-2xl on my small reed motor.

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Author Topic: Lectron 44mm Still Banging Out on Top End ? (Read 2239 times)

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